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Leningrad, Classical, or Stonewall

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shepi13
Archangel_Michael wrote:
shepi13 wrote:

If 2... Nf6 3.Bg5 d5 (probably has to be played anyways) 4. f3 is extremely interesting (other tries include 4. f3 e6 5. g4!? (or other quiter moves) and 4. Bxf6) and as far as I can tell white has an advantage. If black plays 2...d5 white could probably transpose to these lines, but without the knight on f6 it is more difficult, as black can meet 3 Bg5 with g6, Bg7, and later Nf6.

Black need not play an early ... d5 at all against 2. Nc3.  3. ... d5 in your line is not forced or even needs to be played.

3... d5 is definately best and necesarry. What other moves would you recomend?

shepi13

Honesty, the only moves that are played other than d5 are e6 which I have already shown leads to an easy white advantage, g6 which after Bxf6 gxf6 looks horrible, and c6 which doesn't accomplish much and computers give white a rather big advantage  ( > 0.3) after e3, not to mention that white scores 75% in that line.

Archangel_Michael

3. ...e6, and you have shown a game where White gained an advantage in the opening.  This game does not solidify the theory of this variation as an easy advantage to White, especially since it isn't even a modern game.

shepi13

And if you are interested I am using Houdini 1.5a x64 on a 4 core i7 processor  with a speed of 2.3 Ghz, and 8GB ram computer, 600 MB hashtable size.

 

Houdini is running 6 threads at a speed of about 7000 kN/s.

shepi13

Well I don't believe anyone can claim that black is exactly doing well after 4. e4 Be7 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. Nf3 0-0 7. Bd3, although black did make some mistakes later. White isn't winning here, but the edge should be obvious.

shepi13

That's not even taking into account other white tries like 7. Qh5+ g6 8. Qh6, beginning to threaten penetration on the dark squares.

Archangel_Michael

I would play 4. ... fxe4.

shepi13

Honestly, if you are trying to prove Nc3 isn't dangerous you probably should look into d4 f5 Nc3 d5 Bf4 a6!, when white is up a tempo or two on normal stonewall dutch positions without having c4 played.

shepi13

Lol, I mistyped, meant 4. e4 fxe4 5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Bxf6 Bxf6 7. Nf3 0-0 8. Bd3.

Forgot a move sorry.

shepi13

Black doesn't really have many other tries after 3...e6 but white has plenty of other interesting options.

Archangel_Michael
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Archangel_Michael

I would probably play the line 1. d4 f5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 e6 4. e4 fxe4 5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Nf3 0-0 7. Bd3 Nc6 8. c3 Be7 9. 0-0 b6

shepi13
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shepi13

You mean this right?



Archangel_Michael

Yes

Archangel_Michael

bump

Archangel_Michael

So the Stonewall is the easy choice, the Leningrad is the ambitious choice.

Fear_ItseIf

it comes does to whichever you feel most comfortable playing, they all have their advantages and disadvantages, I wouldnt rate any as better than the next.

shepi13

I don't think the staunton is as good as 2. Nc3. Black has more choices and white has to worry about recapturing his pawn or gambiting it. I'm not spewing garbage either, I played the staunton for a year and now have switched to 2.Nc3 Laughing.

Archangel_Michael

I'm thinking I will just play in response to d4 (and other non e4 moves) 1. ... e6 and if White plays 2. e4, then I will play a French.  If White plays 2. ... c4 I will look to play the Classical Dutch.