Playing Black against the Catalan

I don't have much of a system to begin with as Black against D4, but when facing the Catalan, I just wanna cry, lol. I can never get my light squared bishop developed and my position just ends up collapsing, lol.

If you face the Catalan from a Queens Gambit Declined position , I admit to have the same problem. My antidote is the transposition to a Dutch stonewall defense. After his 3.g3 play 3...f5 and when you complete development follow the road Bd7-Be8-Bh5 and exchange your light square bishop with a knight.

It's not a instructive way to deal with the Catalan but if you are not ready to spent time understanding the theory then , the Stonewall it's a solution...and don't forget, Catalan players hate to see this!

Most of the time the catalan comes from 3.Nf3 4.g3 though. So you wouldnt get a stonewall unless you delayed Nf6 with a move like c6.

the more common move is 6 be7 after bb4+which is considered the most testing variation against the catalan due to whites half developed bishop on d2 which is worse than on c1 you can get an equal position

Arguably the most main line, and straightforward for black is seen in for example, Kramnik v Carlsen in this thread, https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/how-to-be-good-in-catalan-opening-what-are-its-strategic-goals. Black solves bad Bc8, and aims for c5, White needs very good technique to exploit small advantages on queenside, aiming to achieve. Most club players don't have it.

pfren - That system might work if White plays 7.Qc2, but speaking as a Catalan player myself, White also has 7.Ne5 as an option.

I don't claim any raging advantage for White, but Black still has to know what he's doing after either 7...Nc6 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxc6 Q-Moves 10.Nxe7+ or else the 7...c5 line.

I actually play the 7.Ne5 line myself probably 3 to 4 times as often as I play 7.Qc2.

Just making the users facing the Black side of the Catalan aware of this necessity if they play the QGD (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 O-O 6.O-O dxc4) or Nimzo-Indian Defense (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 Be7 5.Nf3 O-O 6.O-O dxc4).

Thanks a million. I'm gonna try it out...

HOPE IT WORKS!

If like this idea R Pert's book on the Ragozin covers it in detail.

In fact every new book on 1...d5 defenses seems to cover a new playable line against the Catalan.

Against the Nimzo move order, 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 the most straightforward is 3...Bb4ch 4Bd2 BxB then if 5Nxd2 putting pawns on black squares with d6 then e5 later. Whilst if 5QxN d5. This is particularly useful as can play a similar line against 3Nf3.  With a sensible choice of defense in the Catalan, the skills gap between club player and titled ones is to black's advantage because white needs very high level of positional/ technical skill to get anywhere at all.

I suggest 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 g3 Be7 5 Bg2 0-0 6 0-0 dc4 7 Qc2 c6!? (Riazantsev/Karjakin).

I find it interesting that Catalan is seemingly played at all levels these days. It's a highly complex opening. I decided against it as a 1900 player in favour of the Exchange Variation of the QGD, because I felt I needed to get the basics right first.

IM Pfren, you played your game very well, your exchange sacrifice was very sound.

Since in one of the lines being discussed 7b3 Ne4 the main plan is the dutch stonewall style later f5, which is notorious for the bad bishop bc8, which you made such a song and dance about in the orginal post, I kinda of doubt it will. You completely ignored lines that attempt to directly address this issue.

BTW the line suggested is perfectly good, it is just that you seem very hazy what looking for in an opening,,,

Actually have just realised have anyway confused spaceful, with the OP, who was crying because couldn't develop the Bc8 etc, oh well lol... 

Anyway  play the French defense myself, so do know that an apparantly bad bishop can be useful.

in this game , Shilov managed to get a favorable Stonewall position and attack ferociously . Notice that the light-squared bishop was activated in classic fashion!

But this post is about the Black side of the Catalan, lol.