I have Fritz 6 evaluating the position after 5. Bd3, and at a Depth of 16/16, it suggests 5. ...c5 is the strongest reply Black has. [+/= (0.34)]
It evaluates castling as [+/= (0.47)].
Perhaps I'm not searching correctly in the databases, but it seems that c5 has better chances at equality than castling and allowing white to continue developing snipping the center immediately.
Also, in a recent game I played c5 and the opponent chose to push his e pawn instead of taking immediately, which led to this position:
It seems to make things equal as he now has so much pressure on e3 and castling Kingside is delayed.
I had been searching for players who were rated above 2000 that played ...c5, and found none.
But players slightly less do play c5. I found that white's response in both games I found was to avoid the complications (and equality) that come with ...Qa5+ by playing c3, supporting the d4 pawn.
This interesting miniature played between Vladmir Jevtic and Rajko Tesanovic at the 2014 Novi Sad Chess Winter shows that pressure can still appear quickly even following c3:
I found three games where c5 was played by players with ratings of 2400 or higher. Below are the games and the move played immediately after 5...c5.
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1991 | Schmittdiel vs. Christiansen 0-1 |
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1893 | Lee vs. Ryan 1-0 |
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1955 | Udovcic vs. Robatsch 1-0 |
The title of your thread says Nc3, but your posts say Nf3. Which one is it?
I found three games where c5 was played by players with ratings of 2400 or higher. Below are the games and the move played immediately after 5...c5.
Thank you so much!
I'll make sure to review all three. I couldn't find it on Chess Games or Chess Lab.
The title of your thread says Nc3, but your posts say Nf3. Which one is it?
It's Nf3. Thank you very much for bringing it to my attention.
Using the database provided by ChessTempo.com, I found 66 games where c5 was played. 18 of those games were by 2200+ rated players. The statistics for this move are very impressive, with a 48% win rate for black.
What database are you looking at? My database says that several players over 2400 have played 5...c5. It looks like a normal, good move that takes advantage of the fact that the normal 6. d5 walks into 6...c4.
c5 is definitely a good move for black. In the Pirc defense, it black can manage to play an early c5, it will often pay off for them.
@xakean-ski I didn't know about ChessTempo.com. That seems to be a much better one than the ones I use.
@Bab3s I was using ChessGames.com and ChessLab.com to search for games.
I'm surprised that there are so many games with c5. I found only 2 on ChessLab and 8 Castling games. I suppose their lists of games are not very robust....
Now that I know it's regularly played, I wonder why fewer players play 5...c5 if it has such a good record?
I believe c5 is regularly used against the Austrian, and this setup after Bd3 is very similar to that one.
The reason 5...c5 isn't played so often because this particular move order isn't very common. In a lot of cases White has the knight on c3. Something to note: whenever White can respond to ...c5 with dxc5 and Black has to recapture with the pawn, White is better as a rule because Black has lost control of the e5-square.
That's good to know. I've always played Qa5 out of habit instead of taking with the pawn. I never knew the reason why, but I learned it to be the best response so I stuck with it.
It's even been my experience in Pirc games that counter-attacking while White gobbles up center pawns (if for some reason the Queen doesn't recapture) usually leads to lots of counter play and eventually settles down to an even (though sharp) position.
I've had a game where that same move order happened and I somehow ended up a knight up when the dust cleared. I still have no idea how that happened.
Were you playing as White or Black?
