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What makes c4 and c5 good??


  • 8 months ago · Quote · #1

    manspider29

    Obviously e4/5 and d4/5 allows scope for you bishop, and room for you queen to breath as well as control of two central squares. The c file openings only get 1 central square, and do not create scope. Why do we still continue to play it though??

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #2

    Dare-Dare

    I don't :)

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #3

    manspider29

    haha, I have played it once or twice.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #4

    Chessman265

    Well, for white, it is named the English opening, which allows you to later push d4 and e4, creating a huge center. For black, it is named the sicilian, which is one of the best moves for black, almost equalizing the position.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #5

    manspider29

    how does it equalize the position???

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #6

    RetiFan

    It's a really good question, and the answer lies in the history of chess openings.

    For a long long time people played e4 to get the fastest mating net possible(Bc4, Nf3-e5, Qf5 or Qh5). And black played symmetrically...

    Then, white players found out that moving d4 prevents black's e5, possibly getting central control and more probably forcing black to play e6, creating development problems for at least one bishop for black player.

    Then, white understood that d4 can be met by either d5 or Nf6, restricting their own e pawn as well! Furthermore, if white plays Nc3 to strengthen this square, then the c pawn is blocked. Further further more, the blocked c pawn also blocks queen's access to d1-a4 diagonal. People understood that using this diagonal, there are tactical and strategical options. To benefit from the positional gain, people also discovered 1.Nf3 d5 2. c4 or directly 1.c4. This move gives queen d1-a4 diagonal, and also when Nc3 is played, c pawn won't be blocked.

    Further further further more, these cheesy tactics starting with c4 mostly converge on c6 square in the enemy territory, forcing enemy to put a pawn rather than a knight at this square, for example:

    I think that's why c4, and also Nf3 are good alternatives to play. This chess opening history thing goes until white plays 1.a3 and 1.h3, and even justifies those moves as well. So today, it's fine whatever you move in the first move, so long as you have a plan.Cool

     



  • 8 months ago · Quote · #7

    manspider29

    ok, thank you very much, that was interesting and helpful Laughing

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #8

    Or_theBashaKiller

    people play 1.c4 or 1.Nf3 generally to avoid some of black responses.

    catch is  , with 1.c4 white can avoid the popular Nimzo-Indian but now he must know how to reply to 1.c4 e5 and to some other options black now have . there's no such thing as an ultimate opening . each opening has it's own strengths and weakness ...

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #10

    manspider29

    Thanks

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #12

    Spiffe

    It is a good question, but I don't think anyone has answered it well yet.

    Let's compare 1.d4 d5 to 1.e4 e5.  After the latter, White commonly plays 2.Nf3, which is a threat to capture the black e-pawn, and to which Black has to respond.  After 1.d4 d5, however, 2.Nc3 is not effective in the same way, because the queen defends the pawn.  Since straightforward piece play is ineffective at creating threats in the center, White must hit at d5 with a pawn first -- hence, c4.

    The same principle applies to the assorted move orders of the flank openings.  1.c4 is contesting control of d5, without committing to where White will put his d-pawn.  Converse examples from the black side (e.g., Benoni 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5) have a similar rationale as well.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #13

    Sangwin

    here is typical low level c4 game 10 0 

    had black not 10... Na5 I would have tried to develop my dark bishop and rook on a1 to c1 ??

    I like c4 for its solid pressure on the center and flexablity.  Unlike coming with d4 straight away I find many more mid game goals are available. 

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #14

    aronchuck

    1. c4 is a good opening move where white keeps his cards close to his chest about what he is going to do with his d pawn.  Quite often players who would like to play 1. d4 play it in order to avoid the Nimzo indian and Benonis and just wait a few moves before playing d4 always having the option of not doing so depending on what black does..  If Black plays 1..e5 they reason that they are playing the Sicilian a tempo up and so it can't be bad and it simplifies their opening preparation if they play the Sicilian as black.

    Of course, by avoiding to take on Nimzos and Benonis they don't get everything for free as they have to reckon with Symmetrical English - 1..c5.  I guess 1. c4 players just prefer playing against the symmetrical English.  It's all just a matter of taste and don't think one approach is objectively better than the other.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #15

    manspider29

    ok, thanks to all who have answered


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