I think that takebacks could work, even in rated games, but as you say most of the time it would be among friends. I guess you might get a couple of players who are just wanting to make the game interesting, and don't care at all about their ratings, so in those cases it might also be used. In tournaments I would not allow it under any circumstances (only fair).
Turn-based chess Undos?
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Sep 10, 2008
0
#3
You could just ask them to ignore the blunder and make another move?
Having the effect of an undo button.
I've wished for an "undo" button for a while. However, I think that if it's a rated game, there have to be a couple caveats. First, both players have to agree to it. Second, the blundering player has to officially resign and take the points hit. This is only fair to all other players who play rated games vs them.
After that, the game could continue. Call it an exercise or what you will. Sometimes it would just be nice to see how a game would transpire if a blunder hadn't been made.
Sep 10, 2008
0
#5
Why would the player officially have to resign?
That is not how FICS does it, for what it's worth.
ozzie,
My thought process was that if a player had a couple friends who they played very frequently and who engaged in this often, if you were to play that person, you couldn't necessarily be sure of their actual strength, no matter how many games you saw they had played. They could be much stronger or weaker than was evidenced by their rating. What if I played someone who was much weaker, who I constantly allowed to have redo's until they eventually won many of our games. Their rating would be inflated by this.
I could certainly be wrong in this and maybe it wouldn't be a big deal, but that was my thought.
Sep 10, 2008
0
#7
Yes, I can see the logic on both sides. I don't have a strong preference either way.
Perhaps someone else will enlighten us...
Sep 10, 2008
0
#9
we are going to create a TRAINING mode for people who want to be able to have undos. but we've talked over this many times: offering undos is basically giving a tool for people to be annoying and rude. it also then makes the person who refuses the UNDO feel like the jerk. we give you a double-confirmation move system. if you blunder after that, then next time maybe you'll take your time? :D
Sep 10, 2008
0
#10
buffetrand wrote: So, if I'm playing chess with a buddy and they make an obvious blunder, I make them take it back to keep the game interesting. I just started playing turn-based chess and three out of 5 of my games have been good until a stupid blunder. I just realized that if the piece moved isnt a pawn, I could inform the other player, and I could just move somewhere innacuous and on the next turn we could both move back and the effect would be just like an undo. Does anybody do this? What's everybody's feelings about blunders ruining the game for both players? Thanks :)
what can happen when you agree to undo ! (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/help-tracking-down-a-sportsmanship-discussion)
I was taught that once you remove your hand from the piece, your move is complete.
Since chess.com allows for different ways to make your move, I don't see the need for an UNDO (though I like the idea of a testing/training environment).
Sep 11, 2008
0
#12
beer wrote:
I was taught that once you remove your hand from the piece, your move is complete.
My understanding is that once you remove your hand, you are committed to that move, but completion of the move occurs when you hit the clock.
beer wrote:
Since chess.com allows for different ways to make your move, I don't see the need for an UNDO (though I like the idea of a testing/training environment).
Allowing UNDO within the standard environment could be the new, biggest bone of contention on chess.com. It might even unite all the warring factions (resign/don't resign, chat/don't chat, play fast/play slow, ...) under a single banner.
I think that what Dahan wrote about having to officially resign makes sense, because if the blunderer won after the blunder had been corrected, that would not be fair for the other player.
I also learned the same way that beer learned, and I agree with him completely.
erik wrote:
we are going to create a TRAINING mode for people who want to be able to have undos. but we've talked over this many times: offering undos is basically giving a tool for people to be annoying and rude. it also then makes the person who refuses the UNDO feel like the jerk. we give you a double-confirmation move system. if you blunder after that, then next time maybe you'll take your time? :D
I wouldnt find it any more annoying than someone repeatedly offering a draw, and that hasnt happened to me anyway. People seem very civil on this site compared to yahoo. Plus, the option to have undos can be in the initial game options or something.
I was also tought when your hand leaves the piece the move is done. So I don't get how my opponents keep leaving pieces hanging. I'm guessing they're playing too many games at once? Or is a 1500 rating on chess.com cruddy?
I recently had a game that came down to a single move in the endgame. I move my pawn forward, I win; I capture, I lose. It was a zugzwang/tempo thing. Even though I had planned to move my pawn forward for a long time, it was early in the morning before my tea and I became confused at the last minute and captured. Boy, would I have liked a take-back button! But, you know what? I took my medicine, resigned immediately, and decided to chalk it up to lesson learned. Throwing away that game made me bear down harder on all my other games and I wound up doing much better on them than I think I would have. I say: no magic take-back back button. We need the electronic equivalent of having taken your hand off the piece.
hey bluders are blunders...everone does it even champions..have u seen someone at that level ask for an undo?
no moves can be undone even if it a blunder caused bu user interface...i once accidentally clicked on the wrong square...tough luck
well people will learn from that..besides allowing something like that will create an expectation in every such move...this is not how it is done
Sep 11, 2008
0
#17
I've got a little different take on it. If I'm playing an unrated game with a beginner and the purpose is to teach, having an undo button available would be wonderfully helpful. So would some other features (see below).
I also think there's no reason for the person creating the game to not be able to specify using undos or not. I also agree for the integrity of the rating system that in a rated game accepting an offered undo should equal resignation with the remainer of the game continuing as unrated. Undos should not be allowed in tournaments either, but adding the resignation-upon-acceptance condition in tournaments (rated or otherwise) effectively makes this point moot.
Since Erik said a TRAINING mode is in the offing, here are some other features that might be really useful:
1. An undo button as discussed above.
2. The ability to undo multiple moves backwards to any previous position. Even fancier would be the ability to start from any position in any variation played as a result of undos.
3. The ability to start from any position initially. (This might be useful for creating regular unrated games as well instead of just being restricted to "book" starting positions.)
4. Optionally designating one of the players as the "teacher" and the other as the "student" and only giving the special abilities to the teacher player (so the student has to play under normal conditions).
Just some ideas...
=wild=
My personal suggestion would be to have the UNDO button available only to the person who's turn it is. In friendly games you could just ask your opponent to undo. It could be so that using the undo would automatically turn the game into an unrated one (with consent maybe?). Also that way there would be no constant 'do you accept' offers or such. Unless they started flooding the chat but maybe you can disable it. I don't know - never had the need to do so.
So, if I'm playing chess with a buddy and they make an obvious blunder, I make them take it back to keep the game interesting. I just started playing turn-based chess and three out of 5 of my games have been good until a stupid blunder. I just realized that if the piece moved isnt a pawn, I could inform the other player, and I could just move somewhere innacuous and on the next turn we could both move back and the effect would be just like an undo. Does anybody do this? What's everybody's feelings about blunders ruining the game for both players?
Thanks :)