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How to best continue this position?


  • 5 months ago · Quote · #101

    yeres30

    Fiveofswords wrote:  again, wishful thinking 
    you keep assuming white has to play moves that he really doesnt need to play. Black is in a totally passive and useless position with no chance of counterplay, and yes im sure pawns are doomed

    Instead of 7.Ke2, can White not play 7.cxd8+ outright with check?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #102

    Fiveofswords

    yeres30 wrote:
    Fiveofswords wrote:  again, wishful thinking 
    you keep assuming white has to play moves that he really doesnt need to play. Black is in a totally passive and useless position with no chance of counterplay, and yes im sure pawns are doomed

    Instead of 7.Ke2, can White not play 7.cxd8+ outright with check?

    sure he can...but then black plays Rxc8. Whats more interesting is wondering what on earth black would be able to use a move doing if white just ignores that stuff and improves his position. Black is stuck.

    For some people, it might be more clear that blacks position is terrible if they notice that if white jsut waits black cant do anything useful at all with his move.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #103

    bangalore2

    Ya, White moves his king up and eats pawns.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #104

    bangalore2

    Wait, what about the opp.B+N in post 99? I think that might be a draw after say..Nd4.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #105

    Fiveofswords

    bangalore2 wrote:

    Wait, what about the opp.B+N in post 99? I think that might be a draw after say..Nd4.

    no chance. The R endgame is objectively the best chance. I suppose it depends on how good white's technique is...but all the other lines look pretty easy to win to me

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #106

    tthechesstitan

    Fiveofswords wrote:

    again, wishful thinking

     
    you keep assuming white has to play moves that he really doesnt need to play. Black is in a totally passive and useless position with no chance of counterplay, and yes im sure pawns are doomed

    Interesting! But why not 7. cxd (Q)+ Rxd8 8. Rc7? That looks like a powerful rook to me

    http://chess-teacher.com/1632.html

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #107

    AKAL1

    Because he can do that any time. Activate the king, because you can

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #108

    Fiveofswords

    tthechesstitan wrote:
    Fiveofswords wrote:

    again, wishful thinking

     
    you keep assuming white has to play moves that he really doesnt need to play. Black is in a totally passive and useless position with no chance of counterplay, and yes im sure pawns are doomed

    Interesting! But why not 7. cxd (Q)+ Rxd8 8. Rc7? That looks like a powerful rook to me

    http://chess-teacher.com/1632.html

    the rook is powerful regardless. I dont mean to sound condescending but I think that with experience theres a certian mindset you get to win technical positions like this. It actually tends to be better to kill the opponents chance at counterplay rather than go on with your own attack. Active defense can make positions surprisingly resiliant. And its not totally clear that the rook belongs on c7...depending on how things develop it might be better on c5...and after a6 is ptobably would end up going to c6....so no reason to commit to moves with a piece that might, depending on the opponents moves, actually end up on a different square. The king move, however, is clear.

    I would say that a good rule of thumb in technical endgames is this: if there is any remote possiblity that a move you paly could end up a wasted tempo depending on the opponents play, then do not paly that move. YOu need to squeeze every last drop of tempo you have to win technical endgames.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #109

    bangalore2

    How can Black avoid losing two pawns though?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #110

    bangalore2

    Analysis on 99:

    ..Nd4

    Bc4. Kg7

    b4. f5

    exf. Nxf5

    Nd5. Bg5

    Kf1. Ne7

    Nc7 Bc1.

    a4 Nc8

    b5 Nd6

    Bd5 Bd2

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #111

    Fiveofswords

    your analysis is way too deep in that line. None of those moves are forced. Clearly white has won a pawn and its 2 pieces and pawns (on both sides) endgame with white up a pawn. with mroe than 3 pawns on the board there should be a win in such endings. I really do not know if Bc4 is the 'best' move. I would actually consider Ba6, for example....feels like a more clear long term move.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #112

    Fiveofswords


    in the R endgame black can avoid losing 2 pawns with simply counterattacking...for example

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #113

    bangalore2

    What about 11. Ke2 in the variation leading to the position?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #114

    Fiveofswords

    bangalore2 wrote:

    What about 11. Ke2 in the variation leading to the position?

    well then black would have time for some move like b4/f6/rb8 etc. Its hard for white to in the r endgame.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #115

    bangalore2

    So you are saying that this position is a draw w/ best play?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #116

    bangalore2

    I'm thinking that dxc6 is best. I will come up with analysis later, though.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #117

    bangalore2

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #118

    Fiveofswords

    bangalore2 wrote:

    So you are saying that this position is a draw w/ best play?

    i have no idea. Most positions are a draw with best play...even positions that look very bad. BUt is extremely difficult to do best play with positions that are very bad. I certainly wouldnt pretend that i know what the best play here is...My Qc5 move is jsut what i would probably play...feels right...and some analysis seems to justify it because it creates serious problems for black to defend his b pawn. THats all I was saying.


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