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Would this play make sense in higher rated game?

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jandrm

I'm just a shmuck floating around 1300. Periodically try to learn something new but not memorizing much. So my games are pretty much result of previous loses. Now, there's a move I tried a few times and this game shows that my reasoning made some sense... but my question is: would it fly at maybe 1400 level? Here's the game (and question is in the comment):

 

Now, I know perfectly well that the only reason this worked so easily is because black didn't play Nf6... I didn't expect this to be this simple, I just used this game because it shows exactly what I wanted to achieve. If black played Nf6 I would still have an open rook but no mate so soon.

Is there anything wrong with my Be3 or would a stronger player punish me somehow?



LilWeezyBlowsTrees

well played game with a nice tactic! Although, at a higher level, most people won't blunder with h6, and notice the f-file to be semi-open!

Sqod

7...c6 would have caused you another lost tempo from needing to retreat your bishop.

Most players would probably not play ...a6 and ...h6 without provocation, especially both moves in the same game.

To my knowledge, Be3 ...Bxe3 fxe3 is fine for White since is prepares for d4, despite the ugly doubled pawn, but I could be wrong.

By the way, that ending mate position is an example of a Swallow's Tail Mate, also called a Gueridon Mate, which is frequently the final mating position in chess puzzles.

(Please allow 15 minutes after this post for me to correct inevitable errors.)

KirbyCake

i think it was a 1000 rated game

jandrm

Yes Kirby, I'm aware it wasn't a top-quality game, I just used it because it was the simplest way to demonstrate my reason for playing Be3.

Squod, you have a point about ugly doubled pawns... so that's why I asked the question about my play: if black played a bit better, would that cost me down the road? And btw, if he played 7...c6 I would play 8. Bxf7 right then (one move earlier). That would cost me a bishop, but I would still create a mess on his king side. He couldn't castle, he would have to move a king a few times while I would develop rook and knight. Probably not a quick mate, but a funky game...

KirbyCake

i count several blunders in the opening already.

4...a6 was pointless, 5...bxe3 was also pointless.

7. Bb3 is better.

after 7...c6, if you played 8.bxf7 that would be losing for you, there is absolutely nothing after that.

8...h6 is pointless.

i think even a 1000 rated player would do better than make pointless side pawn moves

TournamentPlayer

Well played attack you were able to take advantage of your opponents mistakes. Don't let people say this was a "1000" rated game thats nonsense.

Dale

I think 5.Be3 is a great move but usually a lot of things can be said about a move some good and some bad even if the end result is super good or bad.

Is there anything wrong with it yes although I think it might still be the best move.

The thing wrong with it is on e3 that bishop is somewhat more attackable than usual.

For example black can attack e3 over the next bunch of moves in a variety of ways.

1.The black bishop is attacking it.

2.A black night on g4 would attack it.

3.A black pawn on d4 would attack it.

4.A black night on d5 would attack it.

I think it is a good move though since capturing towards the centre with you f pawn is a nice direction to capture and like you already said the f file being open is good for a rook.

jandrm

Thank you Dale. Next to black bishop taking Be3 (what is what I want anyway), my next most desirable play by black is what you list as "3. black pawn on d4". That blocks his own bishop, I'll be perfectly happy to leave his pawn there forever as a shield and move my bishop out of the way :).

Any other play and I'd have to think. My most likely response to attacking my Be3 by one of the knights would be me initiating bishop exchange on c5 instead. That wouldn't open f file, but material would be even and I would feel a bit less stressed out without his bishop tooking at my king.

I agree it wasn't really much better than 1000 game, but I think we both tried experimenting a bit. Thats the only way to learn. Well, that or reading.... who has time for that :(

However, I wasn't really asking for the opinion about the game, just that specific move. To Be3 or not to Be3... 

mateologist

  5.Be3  would be a good solid move on ANY level , my simple stupid rule for non-forced moves is that you should find at least TWO reasons for such a move. Your move developes a piece and contests the center which is very important in the opening. If Black captures the Be3 bishop he opens the  "f" file and strenghtens White's ( mobile) center with a well-timed ( d4) by white would give him the classical and strong e4,d4 set-up ! Smile

guguloi