10. Bxg5+ wins queen.
A Look at the King's Gambit.
Sort:
I like 2...Bc5 in the King's Gambit, which usually throws players out of their usual lines. It's also sneaky:3.fxe5? allows 3...Qh5 4.g3 Qxe4+ and the rook goes.
Batgirl, I agree with frank125c, and checkmate would have been faster with Bxg5 instead of hxg. That might be the answer.
I prefer 10. Qf7 in the original game. Black can only delay mate by heavily losing material, and still runs into a mate-in-x.
Visually:
In the billwall game, 8. ...d5 transposes into the "revised defense", the the 6. ...d5 line batgirl gave in the original post. I think that still fails to the h4 and Qf7 ideas combined.
EDIT: as far as I see, any ideas with Bd6 from black against this fail to h5+.
Years ago I read in a book that, after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 f6 3.fxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+, 4...g6, which loses a Rook, was better for Black than moving the King. The game I gave shows what "can" happen if Black moves his King. But I think now that moving the King, preserving the Rook, actually gives Black the best chance to survive.
First (in variations of the game I offered), hotwax's idea 10.Qf7 is the hardest to find and seemingly the best - it wins completely and economically, plus it has some aesthetic appeal. I love Bill Wall's idea of postponing the exposed check until move 9. In that game I think Black could have held off mate for a couple more moves by moving his g pawn rather than his King on move 9.
I definitely don't see 10.Bc5+ as best, or even winning the Queen. After 10.Bc5+, Black can move Kg7 and now it's White's Queen who's in danger. After the White Queen moves, Black can play Be7, and although Black is under pressure, he seems to have a lot of counterplay, so 10.Bc5+ looks a bit like a blunder.
But really, the posting isn't about the first game where Black, after having committed a faux pas in the KGA by moving the f pawn, continues to help White win (after Qf5+, Black's fate looks sealed, one way or another), but about the second line where Black, already in trouble, finds real defensive resources. 6...d5 (activating the Bishop and taking away the possiblity if White's Qf5+). 6...d5 seems to give Black a lot of defensive chances. While Black still has serious disadvantages, White can't afford mistakes, or even any weak moves, from that point.
That was a funny game, Lisa; I don't think I've ever seen that particular defense before. While Black, of course, could have played better, it does underscore problems some people have playing against the KG, especially, though not entirely, in blitz. I normally play people rated between 1450 and 1850 (+-200 whatever my rating is at the moment) and I encounter Black playing ....f6 regularly. I can't recall ever losing such a game, but I'm thinking it's not entirely due to the weakness but also with the possibility that whoever plays ...f6 in the KGA, doesn't understand how to defend sufficiently to find the right moves. But... say someone plays ...f6 with some home-prep, although White is still winning by a mile, I'm not sure White would always know how to proceed (unlike in the 4...g6 line where Black gives up a Rook and White has definite plans).
Well, I don't think ...f6 in anyway equalizes or gains any advantage, but I think it does have some defensive potential at least to the extent that Black can stay in the game long hopefully enough for White to possibly either blunder or fritter away his advantage, as Black is down a couple of pawn rather than a whole Rook in the ...g6 line. I also think Black might gain a psychological edge when White finds he has no quick mate and has to play a complicated game.
It's so easy to go wrong in the KGA on either side, but defending is always harder than attacking .. though maybe even more rewarding .. and the defender often can't keep up. I like defending more than attacking - and I love attacking!
3.fe5 134 games 93% Last Played 2012 Best Elo 2548
3.Nf3 43 games 83% LP 2012 BE 2512
3.other moves 17 games LP 2010 BE 1720
SOURCE: CB BIG DB 2012 - 5.5 million games
(winning percentages are for WHITE)
batgirl wrote:
... I like defending more than attacking - and I love attacking!
Sounds a litle crafty ...
Seriously, I have been typing for half an hour. Where's my comment? :(
hotwax wrote:
Seriously, I have been typing for half an hour. Where's my comment? :(
Dude, always copy your work before hitting the submit button, on this site.
Thanks for the tip, apparently there's some kind of time-out? Aaargh...
Anyway, maybe I'll have another go at it later this weekend.
hotwax, if you use Firefox, get the add-on or extension called "Textarea Cache." This add-on is like clipboard but only saves (and updates) what you type into a text area or dialogue box, email, (even blog entries),etc. (it save the last 50, I think) and if something happens such as the webpage or java not working right or what you just spent 30 mins. writing is saved. Surprisingly, even photos and games using chess.com viewer can be pasted from Textarea Cache into a posting such as this fully intact.
Before that, since I'd been stung enough times, after writing something of any length into a dialogue box, I got myself into the habit of copying it into clipboard so if something unexpected happened, I could just paste it back.
if you use Firefox, get the add-on or extension called "Textarea Cache."
Good tip, installed.
Thanx. I am using chrome however, but apparently there is an extention there as well, called lazarus form recovery. Hopefully this will do the trick as well.
Back on-topic then. I wanted to make the comparison with the Damiano Defense, where white sacs a knight as early as move two to allow the queen to come out. The critical line (containing a couple of amazing moves, one which counters the black light squared bishop defending idea) goes as follows:
The same Bxb7 idea works in the KG line with 6. ... d5.
Yet something we haven't considered, is the fact that 3. ... fxe5 is not forced. In the Damiano, Fischer once faced the Damiano and, thinking he was playing a patzer, played a couple of sub-optimal moves and only drew. His opponent however, was (or had been?) state champion and only played the Damiano to trick the American champion. The game can be found here:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1255180
So maybe Qe7 instead of fxe5 can be played in our line too?
Unfortunately, I have no more time today to check these lines.
There's plenty of other fascinating stuff on these idea's I haven't checked, e.g. a game where Chigorin (!) plays the Damiano only to lose his queen to a nice tactic on move 10, later misses two (or so I was told) forced mates and accepted a draw offer in a losing position. This game can be found here:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1036460
In the ...d5 line (seemingly of both sub-optimal defenses - the ...f6 in the KGA and the Damiano Defense), the critical mave, Qf5+ in taken away from White. The move that most people, at least at below expert levels (and possibly even above expert level in blitz), will have difficult finding, if they find it at all, is the attempt to deflect the Black Bishop with Bxb7 (winning the Rook if nothing else). Once this move is played, most of the wind goes out of Black's sails (if White can find the right follow-up, that is).
fx3 isn't forced and not capturing might be best (certainly capturing does little). The only problem is that 99% of the people who play ...f6, play it with the intention of protecting the e pawn and do, in fact, capture back. The fact that most people almost automatically go into inferior lines - first playing ...f6, then ...fxe, then ...Kg6 (w/o first playing ...d5), says more about the mindset of the opponents than about the line itself. This is what lead me to wonder out loud if it happens that White's plans (and I've been on the White side of this in hundreds of games, I imagine.) were unexpectedly upset with Black giving strong resistance, could White (myself especially) find the right way to proceed or would the sudden turn of events cause White to collapse. Not wanting to be on the losing side as White, I am glad were exploring how to deal with the unexpected.
(The Schiffers-Tschigorin game was an amazing dispay of tenacity on Black's part.)
Almost everyone knows Black playing f6 in the King's Gambit is a courtship with disaster. At least once or twice a month, however, I play someone who moves f6, usually on move 2.
I played this game earlier today:
Black lost, but after the game I was wondering if it was 2...f6 that caused the quick loss, or just our rating difference. I never play ...f6 as Black in the KG, so my only real dealing with it has been with players who aren't particularly familiar with the opening or who aren't experienced enough to put up much resistance. So, I got to looking at the ...f6 line more closely. Now, I don't condone this move in the least and feel it's ultimately losing, but I was surprised at the staunch defensive resources Black has at his disposal even after this weakening move. The key seems to be playing 6...d5, freeing the Bishop for defense.
After 7. Bxd5+ Kg6, there's no quick mates. 8.Ng2 looks powerful but White can be held at bay in a variety of ways.