Can an average person ever break 2000?

Penguins play for smelt. And this thread is deteriorating fast!

Well, I have my own explanation for that:

Learning chess is painful. Because at first you lose and you lose and you lose. And you know that those who beat you 100% of the times will be beaten 100% of the times by somebody that will be beaten by 100% of the times by anybody who heard Carlsen fart through a walkie-talkie.

Now that a look at our society: we want to win, and we want to win fast. We're a fast food society. Hardly anybody would have the patience and commitment to go through the long "pain period" that chess will require from an adult learner.

For a child is different: a child gets into the world and he's used to be taught from adults. If a 12 years old kid is beaten at chess by his father he considers it normal: it's the natural way of life that kids learn from others. If a 30 years old is beaten at chess, especially by somebody younger or maybe even less successful in life than he is, he will consider the experience to be humiliating. And this is because people are convinced that chess reflects your intelligence (or lack thereof). Not many reasons to withstand such "pain" just to learn a game with no practical applications.

You know why poker has become so popular? because you can win RIGHT NOW. Of course a good player will beat a worse player in the long run but anybody stands a chance to win. I myself got a full house and won a big pot in my first try at poker. That would be like one walking in a chess club and checkmating somebody with a Tactic Trainer combo. Not going to happen.

In sum, the adult learners will be really few. Out of those few, then of course the percentage of those reaching 2000 will be small so we would really have trouble finding an adult learner 2000 in a chess club.

But that doesn't tell anything about the POTENTIAL. Even if very, very few people do it, that doesn't tell us that it can't be done.

Jan 1.... anything can happen.

I have not read the whole post and I never will - someone may well have said this but - the question: Can an average person ever break 2000?

The question is a simple contradiction in terms and I'm not sure what it possibly means.  

If a person breaks 2000, then they are NOT average.

How this has gone on for 34 pages is incredible.

Define average!

Average by what standards.

And just before i read that commment this is what i wanted to say.

"I believe i can fly, i believe i can touch the sky"

Oh Christ, not another one. The 'average' is the starting point. Obviously 2000 is not average.

Prove it?

The point is - can a person with average intelligence reach 2000? That's it, it's that simple.

about adult learners - I am adult learner (started playing at 22). ok, my newest FIDE rating is 1955, not above 2000, but I guess you are talking about USCF ratings, which is lower than FIDE. So I guess I'd be above 2000 if I'd play in USA. Besides, I'm pretty sure that I will break 2000 FIDE also. My last two tournment performances were 2045 and 2108. and I hope I'm not average :)

What are you saying they might not even be fit to even work in Mc Donalds if they can not reach 2000.

What test do you have to measure "average ntelligence". They have methods that can increase a kids knowledge of math quickly and they sell it on tv all the time.

What happens if they reach 1995. Are they considered a failure or given more time to reach it?

So that 12 year old girl breaks 2000.

What will that say about adults?

Excellent. So we now have an adult learner who has reached 2000 - well done by the way. So that dispells another myth too - that adult learners can't possibly reach 2000.

you shouldn't really use outliers to prove something

Maybe we should define what an adult learner is ?

I learnt the rules at 6, but didn't play in a club until 20 : I wouldn't consider myself an adult learner at all.

I wouldn't consider anyone in his 20's as an adult learner, especially not a student I'm pretty sure a guy in his 20's can learn the rules and break 2000 in the next 10 years.

I put the bar for adult learner at 30 : my definition is then - a person in his 30s, who has never played anything but casual chess up to this point in life.

So what is the minimum amount of intelligence to be considered to be average intelligence?

A 12 year old girl is not a person? She broke 2000!

Can average person break out the category of being average?

And if a person falls out of 2000 does that mean they are now if  they can not reach it again?

lol

I thought anyone in his 20's is considered an adult: he can drink alcohol, drive the car and so on. But I understand your point. For me it's also ridiculous idea that a person in 20's  becomes stupid, his memory on the decline and he can't learn chess.

By the way, I learn the rules at 22 and played my first classical otb game at 25. So I consider myself adult learner and even more I am self-taught adult learner. I never had any coach.

Well the average guy can be found working in Mc Donald's flipping burgers.

Saying how may i help you today.

If i have problems taking out that guy i better take his place.

Now is that with or without any drink to enhance their ability?

Who says he is an outlier? Besides, it doesn't matter a few pages ago it was 'impossible' for an adult learner to do so full-stop. Now we have at least one so we are quibbling on what adult is.

I've always thought of adult as post 18. OK if we are talking 30s now but that doesn't make much difference, if it has been done in the 20s it can be done in the 30s, it would just be harder but certainly not impossible.