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How Hard Is Chess, Really?


  • 24 months ago · Quote · #41

    waffllemaster

    ClavierCavalier wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:
    ClavierCavalier wrote:

    I'm not sure, but I think Kirk usually won against Spock.  Kirk was supposed to be a master strategist and tactician.

    An interesting thing in that article is that the board and set up changed throughout the series, even within the same episode, I think.

    "Queen to queen's level 1."  I remember this from an episode, but I don't remember the answer.  Do you?  It was the challenge that they had to answer right in order for the Enterprise to beam them up in that episode where they go to the mental hospital.

    Really?  I thought spock always won... someone has to know this ;)

    2nd paragraph:  http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Three-dimensional_chess

    "In the 2260s, Kirk and Commander Spock played many games of three-dimensional chess together aboard the USS Enterprise. It was a fascinating experience for Spock as Captain Kirk beat him on many occassions, defying Spock's own logic. (TOS episodes: "Where No Man Has Gone Before", "Court Martial")"

    Thx

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #42

    winnersp

    chess is not hard to play good,but difficult to play perfect

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #43

    DimebagDerek

    I am almost a master at checkers, and it is an excellently beautiful game.  There are no cards to draw, dice to roll, random factors involved.  Sheer calculation and study will result in a win or draw almost every time.  That being said though, the scope of the game compared to chess is no comparison.  In checkers the pieces only move 1 way (Until you make a king), and all jumps are forced, leading to many less positions to think about and learn.  In chess just because I attack a piece, doesn't force it to do anything many times.  And all pieces except pawns can move back and forth.  In chess there are 6 different types of piece to contend with all with different rules, whereas in checkers there are only 2, and they all can only move 1 square at a time.  So while both games are 100% skill and strategy, the difference is so vast you cannot even compare the two.  And just for a little info about the scope of checkers.  It took the chinook computer at the University of Alberta, Canada, 18 years to solve the game, over 500 billion billion positions.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #44

    ClavierCavalier

    DimebagDerek wrote:

    I am almost a master at checkers, and it is an excellently beautiful game.  There are no cards to draw, dice to roll, random factors involved.  Sheer calculation and study will result in a win or draw almost every time.  That being said though, the scope of the game compared to chess is no comparison.  In checkers the pieces only move 1 way (Until you make a king), and all jumps are forced, leading to many less positions to think about and learn.  In chess just because I attack a piece, doesn't force it to do anything many times.  And all pieces except pawns can move back and forth.  In chess there are 6 different types of piece to contend with all with different rules, whereas in checkers there are only 2, and they all can only move 1 square at a time.  So while both games are 100% skill and strategy, the difference is so vast you cannot even compare the two.  And just for a little info about the scope of checkers.  It took the chinook computer at the University of Alberta, Canada, 18 years to solve the game, over 500 billion billion positions.

    And jsut for a little info about the scope of chess, it hasn't been solved yet! :-p

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #45

    DimebagDerek

    With the amount of positions, it might not be for quite some time.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #46

    ClavierCavalier

    DimebagDerek wrote:

    With the amount of positions, it might not be for quite some time.

    That's why they built the Large Hadron Collider.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #47

    timbeau

    I only know that once I mastered 'the opposable feather', it was an end to all those 'touch move' blunders.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #48

    WordWarrior

    A good way to measure hardness is indeed to use the number of possible moves as a factor, how difficult it is for a computer to play it (computational complexity, using measures such as P, NP, etc.) and also how likely it is for a human to beat a computer.

    These days, the best chess computers are far better than any human alive today, they have exceeded us in skill (>3000 ELO rating). In some (non-chess) games, the computer always wins, in other games, the human has a fair chance to mostly win. As far as computational complexity goes, I've heard that Go is by far the hardest.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #49

    ClavierCavalier

    So, Mr. DimebagdDerek, do either game help the other or are they so different there is no cross over?  I assume it's like going from the piano to the kazoo, or vice versa.

    No, I don't think the difference between chess and checkers is equal to the piano and the kazoo.  No offense intended.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #50

    andyigreg

    A useful measure of how hard, or perhaps a better word to use is challenging, a game is would be to look at the strength differential between good players and weak players.

    Challenging games tend to have tactical and strategic subtlety (depth in other words) and strong players can exploit their superior knowledge and vision of these ideas. Equally, weaker players can gradually learn these ideas and improve.

    So I would define a game as being hard if there is a broad range in standards of play. This would imply that games like chess and go and poker and maybe even scrabble are hard games.

    Games like tic-tac-toe and snakes and ladders are not.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #51

    Shippen

    Chess is easy to play hard to master.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #52

    timbeau

    Shippen wrote:

    Chess is easy to play hard to master.

    "trip-klee, klee-kleeklee ."

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #53

    nameno1had

    Conflagration_Planet wrote:

    nameno1had wrote:

    Conflagration_Planet wrote:

    Go #1 chess #2

    Chess is far more intricate and difficult to master. I picked up on how to play go relatively well in a short time. For me there is no comparison and no way chess is second. I'd pick tic tac toe before go, simply because it is so hard to win.

    Go has many orders of magnitude more possible moves.

    I owe you an apology. I was thinking reversi...

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #54

    LAZARE82

    I cannot believe what I am reading.

    Chess is as hard or as easy as the opponant you play.

    There is absolutly no luck in chess if you were a grand master for example.

    Luck in chess increases the lower down the rating system you are.

    By that I mean that a game can develop in your favour or not 9 or 10 moves down the road.

    I am at the bottom end of intermediate players so obviously there is a slight luck elemant in my games in terms of development.

    Checkers is NO WAY more complex than chess as there are so much less possibilities

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #55

    LAZARE82

    I just read the post about checkers,

    I did not realise there were that many possibilities lol.

    But still ,,, less than chess

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #56

    JamieKowalski

    Q: How hard is chess?

    A: Very easy.

    Oh wait... I missed the "really." --

    A: Very hard.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #57

    heinzie

    I think chess is only as hard as your opponent makes it for you. Considering all of us play against total numpties [i.e. our equivalents] it isn't all that hard at all. Maybe what makes it appear so difficult is that we play to the best of our ability but on the other side of the board is someone of equal strength, playing at the best of his ability too but in the exact opposite direction. That is what makes chess a mind struggle.

     

    The consequences of measuring "best" moves against what is "perfection" is a different case. Then your mind starts to bend.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #58

    tombarolo

    Maybe the most difficult chess game is Shogi, since the taken pieces can re-enter the game. Also Xiangqi (chinese chess) is more difficult than chess.

    Then if it is board games in general Weiqi (Go) is surely more difficult than chess.

    Once they were selling these simulations of war battles, made with hexagon, different pieces to represent different units, for sure those were impossible as difficulty level, today I'm sure they have been converted on computers.

    However, the most difficult of all are surely the Pentagon simulations, since with all that money, they can only bomb flat a place, but are never able to win a war. The population generally rebel of the new puppet tyrant they put in place, and so on. But I guess that is the most difficult board-game of all, because there are political considerations, as well as the weather to consider.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #59

    paulified22

    Chess can not even be compared to checker's,does anyone dissagree with that?Not even close

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #60

    ClavierCavalier

    I haven't actually said anything about the OP, but I think it's hard to answer this question.  The rules are very simple, and there are just 6 pieces.  I think there are fewer rules to chess than monopoly, but it's the people who play it that make it so complex.

    There is a game, I'm not sure of it's title, but it is all of World War 2.  There are several maps that cover up the whole floor, players control production, alliances, troops, etc. and it has a very thick rule book.  It probably takes months to play.  I'd say that this game is much harder to grasp the basics.

    A more well known series of games would be Warhammer.  The rule book for this is a few hundred pages, and there are hundreds of different units.  But, that's not really a board game.


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