Need help with old German

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batgirl

I found the book itself...

batgirl

I love old German books. I can't read them, but they do use algebraic notation.

batgirl
Journeyman_Jim wrote:

that would be "der Kochsche Schachkodex", meaning "Koch's chess codex", written by one Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Koch around 1800.

edit: oops, i'm a little late, it seems. :-)

Yeah, I'm looking through it now.  :-D

Thanks.

Raspberry_Yoghurt

Awsome topic though.

Weirdly, the only wikipedia that has an article on him is the Spanish one.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Friedrich_Wilhelm_Koch

Also wrote on Botany  "La abreviatura Koch se emplea para indicar a Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Koch como autoridad en la descripción y clasificación científica de los vegetales" - I guess that means he did something important in plant taxonomy? Maybe notation?

batgirl

I had found his botany book while looking for his schachcodex. A lot of old chess players/writers were highly versed in other areas.  

Raspberry_Yoghurt

So maybe his botany notation was influenced by chess notation? It'd sort of make sense to me that if he was into chess notation, he'd transfer his ideas.

Could be the other way around also, but it would be more funny to me if chess notation influenced botany notation than vice versa. :)

Alpenschach
batgirl wrote:

I found the book itself...

 

This title page reads:

Codex

der

Schachspielkunst,

nach den

Musterspielen und Regeln

der größten Meister,

in einer

für die Erleichterung des Selbstunterrichts

bequemen Bezeichnungsart und Anordnung

entworfen von

Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Koch

 

Very freely translated this approximates:

Codex

of

the art of playing chess

according to the

model games (sample games?) and rules

of the

greatest masters

in a

comfortable nomenclature (form of notation?) and order (of presentation)

for easier self-teaching

designed by (outlined by?)

Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Koch

batgirl

Well, Germany and Russia have both always used algebraic notation. Italy, France, Spain and England used various notations, mostly of a descriptive form. I'm not sure about Holland or Denmark.  I'm guessing slavic countries followed the Russian style, but I don't really know. Petroff played and lived for a while in Poland so he would have had a lot of influence in that area of the world, I imagine. Stamma came from Turkey in the early 18th century and he introduced algebraic notation to the West.

bolzenbert
batgirl hat geschrieben:

Well, Germany and Russia have both always used algebraic notation. Italy, France, Spain and England used various notations, mostly of a descriptive form. I'm not sure about Holland or Denmark.  I'm guessing slavic countries followed the Russian style, but I don't really know. Petroff played and lived for a while in Poland so he would have had a lot of influence in that area of the world, I imagine. Stamma came from Turkey in the early 18th century and he introduced algebraic notation to the West.

Actually Koch seems to have been criticized by fellow Germans of his time for using the algebraic notation, so at least in the beginning of the 19th century it seems to have been unusual. But I don't know much about old German chess books (I prefer modern ones).

batgirl
bolzenbert wrote:
batgirl hat geschrieben:

Well, Germany and Russia have both always used algebraic notation. Italy, France, Spain and England used various notations, mostly of a descriptive form. I'm not sure about Holland or Denmark.  I'm guessing slavic countries followed the Russian style, but I don't really know. Petroff played and lived for a while in Poland so he would have had a lot of influence in that area of the world, I imagine. Stamma came from Turkey in the early 18th century and he introduced algebraic notation to the West.

Actually Koch seems to have been criticized by fellow Germans of his time for using the algebraic notation, so at least in the beginning of the 19th century it seems to have been unusual. But I don't know much about old German chess books (I prefer modern ones).

I haven't see a German book on chess not in algebraic. I've looked at old ones including and before Biguer's Handbuch, such as the one by Koch, Silberschmidt's 1826 "Die neu entdeckten Geheimnisse im Gebiete des Schachspiels" , Anderssen's book of problems, "Aufgaben für Schachspieler," later works by Dufresne, Zukertort, etc. ... all algebraic.

bolzenbert
Journeyman_Jim hat geschrieben:

i think the critique was aimed at koch's switching from algebraic notation as we know it to "arithmetic notation" (where every square is represented by a two number code: a1 = 11, a2 = 12, and so on) in the later editions of his book.

Ok, that makes sense. Never heard of this type of notation, seems very confusing to me.

Raspberry_Yoghurt
 
 
Antonius van der Linde
Geschichte und Litteratur des Schachspiels, 1874 Ba
nd II S. 33 (zum “Elementarbuch“):
„Koch hat in diesem Lehrbuche seine gute Notation w
ieder verlassen, um in eine schlechtere
Ziffernotation zurückzufallen. Glücklicherweise bri
ngt er wenig Neues.“
Band II, S. 236 bzw. S. 237 (in “Schachnotationen“)
: „ ... Ein Göttinger Professor, Dr. Wildt,
hat aber 1802 Zeit gefunden, der Nummernotation ein
en gelehrten Anstrich zu geben, und
eine sogenannte arithmetische Notation ausgeklügelt
, - allerdings nachdem ihm das richtige
Prinzip der Schachnotation in Koch ́s Codex [sic]
Prinzip der Schachnotation in Koch ́s Codex [sic] 18
01 schon vorlag. ...
In seinem
“Elementarbuch“ (Magdeburg 1828) verwarf er [Koch –
MN] die Notation der beiden
Ausgaben seines Codex, die er ebenso schlecht, wie
das Schachspiel seiner Quellenschriften
begriffen hatte
, und wandte die Wildt ́sche Ueberkünstlung an.“

According to this pdf http://www.kwabc.org/archive/Texte/JFW_Koch_Tagungsband.pdf

It was a guy called Wildt that made the aritmetic in 1802, his own Wildt'-ersion of it.

Koch then for some reason used Wildt's notation in 1828. van der Linde that I'm quitingg here didn't like the change and thinks WiIdt's notation sucks.

Ziryab
batgirl wrote:

I love old German books. I can't read them, but they do use algebraic notation.

I read them with difficulty and a dictionary. The notation is easy and the Handbuch (1843) is worth reading.

X_PLAYER_J_X
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X_PLAYER_J_X
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tomy_gun

german chess is poisoning european chess, 'for good'

batgirl

Does anyone know what this is?

batgirl

Here is a nice Knight's Tour decription by von Hirsch Silberschmidt:

batgirl

I appreciate the explanation and the offer to translate. But that's too much work for what seems just a relative of chess - too peripheral.  I knew the title said War Game, but that's as far as I could get.  I thought the 11 x 11 square board was quite unusual - normally boards are in even numbers of squares.

Thanks so much!

blackrabbitto

.. and the letter 'j' is missing! I wonder why.