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@zxzyz, of course intelligence (of various kinds) can be inherited, but it can also be acquired. Slight tangent this, but I don't really understand why there is such an obsession with drawing a clear dividing line between "nature" and "nurture". Surely in reality, they are two sides of the same coin. What is "nature" if not inherited "nurture"? All characteristics of living beings must have evolved into existance at some stage, they can't just drop from the sky.
As regards the GM with an IQ of 85, I would suggest that even if his IQ was 85 before he learned chess, it would be a lot higher by the time he got his GM title, because surely learning about chess also improves your general intelligence. It improves and develops your mind.
The relationship between my chess rating and my IQ have some ups and downs. It was down right rocky in the past, but things are looking up...
wow... who sounds really nice...
the first step to knowing anything is the realization of the thought that we really know nothing if we cannot explain everything. just a thought.... no offense to anyone who believes they are a genius....
The first step in knowing is realizing you are aware and questioning it and what it is and then being convicted by the totality of that reality.... then you jump more into what you were getting at, but it is a little different than what you proposed....
But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player.
=thats the way it is spinned.
There is a disturbing trend to push the idea that there is no such thing as inherited intelligence and that anyone can be a genius.. Thus anyone can be a GM.IM if they study enough...
THis is what is being pushed in the media -- everyone is equal --- thus according to this belief there is no relationship between intelligence and chess rating - in fact intelligence is due to environment alone -nothing else -- so no such thing as talent - anyone can develop that.
Perhaps not on this thread but on a similar thread someone made the argument that anyone can be a genius.
If this was true -- you just need one verifiable case of an 85 IQ person who is now an im/gm. (or even increased IQ to 100 or above by learning).
Of course if the person was drunk or did test badly because of other factors it wont count.
the consensus is that there is a small correlation. not no correlation. which essentially means you can't accurately or precisely predict someone's iq from their chess playing ability alone. you can only make a very rough estimate. it cannot be used as a verifiable iq test. the sat would give you a much better idea, but even that is not as accurate as a stanford-binet.
not everyone will be able to become an IM or GM. but everyone with average intelligence (seems to be widely acknowledged as being 100) will be able to achieve around expert or master---if nothing else is getting in their way.
I don't know much about how the media spins things, but I do know there is a normal distribution in regards to intelligence. you can google it. the average is 100, SD 15. someone with an iq of 135 would be within the 99th percentile. people with iq's of 150 or above are regarded as possessing "genius level intelligence"---less than 1 percent of the population.
in regards to talent, is it just me or does it seem like whenever you ask someone to define exactly what this is what people offer up sounds a lot like what they say when asked to define god? I myself am suspicious of such vagueness, things which cannot be measured. personally, I regard what people call talent as a combination of several discrete factors working in concert. the most important of which would probably be capacity (iq) and a genuine deeply rooted interest/emotional investment for whatever it is. you combine both those things with a wealthy family able to secure top notch trainers and you get magnus carlsen.
you can readily imagine someone with a relatively high iq, 130-140 or so, who is nevertheless not IM GM material because they lack the temperament and/or don't have much of an interest/emotional investment.
"IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating"
= 100 x 100 + 1000
= 10000 + 1000
Person of average intelligence can reach ELO 11000 with enough work!
exactly my point. thanks nemo. you proved urself wrong or right?
Why bother talking about tournament players? If the trend can be seen anywhere that intelligence correlates with better chess skills it can be seen at the Grandmasters. It seems very common sense to me that higher intelligence is a big asset. A person with a very high IQ can usually solve math problems more easily and therefore i conclude it must be the same with chess. Or course dumber people can beat smarter people in chess and even have better skills if they put enough effort. If however 2 people of different intelligence study the same material for the same time with the same passion and all te more intelligent person will surely be stronger chess wise.
In the proverbial sense you are right....you can't become counted as wise until you are humble enough to realize how much you don't know and/or how much there could be to know.... I think you worded your statement a bit ambiguously though... I was being facetious and punning the literal interpretation....
thanks? im only kidding. this thread keeps popping up on my page. guess i need to "uncheck" it. hows ur day nemo?
over with, but good otherwise.....you ?
got the busy part overwith. now just relaxin and tryin to decide on where to move. in between places now. obviously a long story. oh... isee ur name now. i just glanced at it. thought it said Nemo. sorry. I live in Austin. its ok...
That is why I use the icon.... people kept typing nemo to either shorten my name for ease of typing, perhaps to mess with me....
my original name was BeeRainDone.
I couldn't think of a good one and all of the run of the mill names were taken....
i wasnt looking at the list of "banned" for cheating folks. geez. i must have seen at least 2000 names. They apparently have a very effective way of catching cheaters. Its everyday. Good job Chess,com. What was this thread about again? oh yeah, im a genius.... thanx. I know. I know. Oh stop. I know. Yeah. Oh stop. Im not that smart. Oh. youre smart too. Ok stop...
I'm sorry... I was watching tv, did you say something?
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