#2049
Perfect play is making moves correct enough so that the theoretical result of the game does not go down [from a draw to a loss or from a win to a loss or draw
OK and how would you know what is correct and what is not? Based on what?
"Perfect play is making moves correct enough"
So how would you make correct moves if you don't know what perfect play is?
#2049
Perfect play is making moves correct enough so that the theoretical result of the game does not go down [from a draw to a loss or from a win to a loss or draw
OK and how would you know what is correct and what is not? Based on what? I did not say or imply that I would know everytime if a move is correct or not. Most positions are simple enough [say one side has a very large material advantage] that it would be easy to find moves which would not affect the theoretical results of the game. However [as i mentioned before] there would be some positions where I would not know the correct moves.
"Perfect play is making moves correct enough" Perfect play means to not make a mistake.. And by "mistake" I mean a move which would change the theoretical result of the game. [for example making a move which would change the theoretical result from a draw to a loss]
There are billions of positions where there are many moves which would not change the theoretical result of the game. I will give you one position as an example...
So how would you make correct moves if you don't know what perfect play is?
GEEZE!!! I did not say i would always make the correct moves!!! You are not reading what i am saying!
I do not need to know perfect play for every game to understand the game of chess is a draw with perfect play!!!!!
#2054
I did not say or imply that I would know everytime if a move is correct or not.
99.9% sure ! You said it not me
#2055
I do not need to know perfect play for every game to understand the game of chess is a draw with perfect play!!!!!
Stop talking non sense please you are talking too much bs .
You are saying something like : I don't need to have a DNA test to know that he is my father !!! We look alike, we both tall and we have a same hobbies , so I know for SURE with 99.9% that hes my father !
#2054
I did not say or imply that I would know everytime if a move is correct or not.
99.9% sure ! You said it not me
Yes, and i stand by exactly what i said!! There is more to determining if chess is a draw than to "solve" chess. There is more to determining if chess is a draw than to be able to make correct moves every time!!
No, Camter. Long before we know for certain every single solution to every move, we can figure out whether chess is a draw. The material required to win is just too much, and there are too many simple draws out there already. We know, beyond all reasonable doubt (see judicial definitions of reasonable doubt), that chess is a draw.
But we haven't *solved* chess yet.
I know that you are pretty good at Chess, and so does everyone who has read a lot of what you have to say. In fact, pretty good is probably not correct as it does not do your knowledge justice.. You are more fairly to be described as an expert at the game.
I hope your lecture is read by everyone, as what you say is the opinion strongly held by not only the experts, but probably by every Grandmaster, and I would reckon by the Masters as well.
So, that, dear readers, is the end of the matter.
#2055
I do not need to know perfect play for every game to understand the game of chess is a draw with perfect play!!!!!
Stop talking non sense please you are talking too much bs .
You are saying something like : I don't need to have a DNA test to know that he is my father !!! We look alike, we both tall and we have a same hobbies , so I know for SURE with 99.9% that hes my father !
Your analogy is greatly flawed. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT EVIDENCE I HAVE THAT CHESS IS A DRAW WITH PERFECT PLAY.
Just because YOU cannot fathom something--does not mean it is not true!
#2060
OK so why then when Stockfish played Alpha Zero , they didn't drew every single game ?
NO its not , Alpha zero vs Stockfish ,Alpha zero had 70 wins 30 draws 0 loses over stockfish...
why? two unconnected similar power computers not connected to internet?
SniperGhostWarrior1 wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:
#2060
OK so why then when Stockfish played Alpha Zero , they didn't drew every single game ?
Cause alpha zero is better than stockfish.
Exactly, so where's perfect play then ? How do we know what is perfect play? Because op CLAIMS that perfect play leads to a draw !!! But how do we know what is a perfect play, when we don't have any proof of perfect play yet .
Even with Stockfish hobbled, most of the games were drawn. Every single game that Stockfish lost was due to an identifiable error.
I strongly believe perfect play on both sides makes a draw, but we’ll likely never see chess become solved in our lifetime. So I see no way we can know the answer for certain.
SmyslovFan wrote:
Even with Stockfish hobbled, most of the games were drawn. Every single game that Stockfish lost was due to an identifiable error.
So? After Alpha zero comes it even stronger, which means when we thought stockfish vs stockfish played "perfect play" alpha zero proove us wrong, which means if something else cones up better then alpha zero or improved alpha whatever it is it will win more again and no draws , which means that we DON'T FREAKING HAVE A PERFECT PLAY YET !!!!!!!
GEEZE!!! I did not say i would always make the correct moves!!! You are not reading what i am saying!
I do not need to know perfect play for every game to understand the game of chess is a draw with perfect play!!!!!
But isn't perfect play exactly what someone needs to know before they can understand if chess is a draw or not? When it comes to perfection I would say being 99.99% sure of something is the same as being 00.01% sure of something. Both aren't perfect. It seems to me that since no one, human or machine, has ever seen perfect play it doesn't make sense to say perfect play leads to anything. It's never been done. Since we are all just guessing, I can guess that I'm 99.99% sure with "perfect play" white always wins.
#2051
To put it another way--I am 99.99% sure that with correct play [not making mistakes] the game of chess is neither a win for White or a win for Black.
And how do you know that? Based on what? Your limited knowledge of chess? Do you even understand what is 99.9% ? If you claim that high, then you DEFINITELY need to provide references, resources, proofs to back it up etc other ways it's just bla bla bla until you provide all of the above its just bla bla bla
And again you are claiming that with "CORRECT " play, what is correct play !!!?? You still hasn't answered my question. , what is it? Show us references,proofs,resources of correct play , until that you are just bla bla bla guy.