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With Best Play for both sides Chess is a Draw--So Why Do We Play?


  • 12 months ago · Quote · #441

    Roboze

    i will not try to get myself across as someone who really understands this great game, but from my perspective.....i played played chess at school and did ok......years later (now) i have returned the game and realise how awfull i am, i think at school i was the best of a bad bunch :P since school i did some boxing, and now i view chess like boxing, to me its about laying traps sometimes multiple traps and out witting your oppenent, but at the same time, they are doing the same to you, i hate walking into "punch" i should of seen coming....to me if your playing any game/sport for a draw why bother?...i mean that as know disrepect to any of you people that are obviously far better than me!! but if you aint going for the kill....take up knitting.......again no offence meant to any one, just my opinion.. i would rather lose than draw knowing i had played to win.........mow shoot me down :P have fun all

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #442

    ponz111

    Sangwin wrote:

    Because with perfect play from white it is a win for white. 

    Are you making a joke?

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #443

    Irontiger

    Phoenix-2 wrote:

    One thing is for sure,- 'there is no forced win in chess'. If it were the case then nobody would bother to play the game.

    Why would people bother, if there was a forced draw ? Don't you see the flaw with that logic ?

    Maybe it's so far out of calculation reach, even for computers, that it's still worth playing games ?

    (oh, and untracking, nice necro btw)

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #444

    Sangwin

    ponz111 wrote:
    Sangwin wrote:

    Because with perfect play from white it is a win for white. 

    Are you making a joke?

    no, not really. although my views have changed as to why.  my second post here on chess.com in 09'

    http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/perfect-play--draw

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #445

    Sangwin

    I can't help but think when quantom computing comes full circle a system where by the values of individual squares will change.  that white will be able to incrementally gain advantage and eventually a mid-game position will be dicovered that yields a won endgame with white.  It will of course be kept secret by the uscf so as not to take away from the allure of chess discovery.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #446

    jposthuma

    With Best Play for both sides Chess is a Draw--So Why Do We Play?

    Because best play from both sides AINT GON HAPPEN!

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #447

    Jion_Wansu

    That's like saying, with best fighting on both sides, a boxing match is a draw...

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #448

    BMeck

    Jion_Wansu wrote:

    That's like saying, with best fighting on both sides, a boxing match is a draw...

    Horrible example but I digress.... I think what is more important than anything is that even if chess is solved as a forced win for either side, no human person can memorize all of the forced lines. No one can compete with computers now when it comes to memory, imagine computers in 20, 50, 100 years. As to the question why do we play? Best play is virtually impossible, especially at our levels. No reason to quit playing because there is a 0.0000001% chance that your opponent will play all of the best moves.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #449

    pujara123

    not even carlsen plays perfect. he is not a computer so why are you saying we should not play?

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #450

    ponz111

    Sangwin wrote:

    I can't help but think when quantom computing comes full circle a system where by the values of individual squares will change.  that white will be able to incrementally gain advantage and eventually a mid-game position will be dicovered that yields a won endgame with white.  It will of course be kept secret by the uscf so as not to take away from the allure of chess discovery.

    The facxt that computers/chess engines will get even stronger does not mean that chess might be a win for White. There have been billions of chess games played in the last few hundred years. There is not one game Where White [ or Black] forced a win from move 1.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #451

    Phoenix-4

    Why do we play? Ans,- We play to win through our competitive spirit, the thing is  that we win  on our opponents mistakes. The challenge is that both players contest that they will not be the first to 'seed' such a mistake. A draw proves the equality. All the rest is ratings.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #452

    Xeelfiar

    Because we are humans and we always make mistakes

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #453

    Phoenix-4

    One thing is for sure,- 'there is no forced win in chess'. If it were the case then nobody would bother to play the game. So therein lies the answer-neither side can force win so the game must be drawn with best play. I rest my case, and agree with ponz111, - and my betters, the Masters!!

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #454

    satorichess

    Sorry this is a stupid question, first of all because you have to proove it that your playing actually correspond to the best possible playing. Secondly because even if this is the case you cannot be sure of the outcome still, depending on wheather you play black or white and that's still have to be prooven by the fastest computer (and probably never will).Third just play your games and win if you can and don't worry too much about universal problem which don't bother you, that's all about chess and life.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #455

    bigpoison

    Grimwell wrote:

    Baseball is a draw with best play from both sides, but we still play that.  And in a hundred some years of trying, no pair of teams has come together yet to play a game that lasted infinite innings.  Probably never will.

    Same deal with chess, pretty much.

    Called because of darkness:

    ----------------1 2 3  4 5 6  7 8 9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18  - R
    Washington         0 0 0   0 0 0   0 0 0    0   0   0    0   0   0    0   0    0  -  0 
    Detroit                 0 0 0   0 0 0   0 0 0    0   0   0    0   0   0    0   0    0  -  0  

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #456

    ponz111

    satorichess wrote:

    Sorry this is a stupid question, first of all because you have to proove it that your playing actually correspond to the best possible playing. Secondly because even if this is the case you cannot be sure of the outcome still, depending on wheather you play black or white and that's still have to be prooven by the fastest computer (and probably never will).Third just play your games and win if you can and don't worry too much about universal problem which don't bother you, that's all about chess and life.

    You make a lot of assumptions here.  Why do you have to prove chess is a draw with best play?  Why do you think [seem to think] you playing a chess game will prove or disprove anything?

    Why would you have to "worry" that chess is a draw? [or not a draw]

    I do agree that you should play your games to win and not to "worry" about the "universal problem" [presume you mean chess is a draw question].

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #457

    waffllemaster

    TheARBChessSystem wrote:

    We Play!..Because there is  a Chance We can change the Result!

    You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear.  Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live.  Why?

    Same idea.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #458

    Sangwin

    waffllemaster wrote:
    TheARBChessSystem wrote:

    We Play!..Because there is  a Chance We can change the Result!

    You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear.  Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live.  Why?

    Same idea.

    because everyday the sun rises is a good day Laughing

    and every day I set up the pieces on the black and white,  I enjoy the fight~

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #459

    fabelhaft

    Because it's so easy to avoid losing by just playing the best move all the time?

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #460

    waffllemaster

    TheARBChessSystem wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:
    TheARBChessSystem wrote:

    We Play!..Because there is  a Chance We can change the Result!

    You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear.  Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live.  Why?

    Same idea.

    Hope! is the Word!  which could be Greater than Faith or Love ? another Discussion!

    A.R.B

    Yes, hope for the journey, not hope for the end result.


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