With Best Play for both sides Chess is a Draw--So Why Do We Play? - Chess Forums - Page 23

pujara123

Dec 19, 2013

0

#441

not even carlsen plays perfect. he is not a computer so why are you saying we should not play?

ponz111

Dec 19, 2013

0

#442

Sangwin wrote:

I can't help but think when quantom computing comes full circle a system where by the values of individual squares will change. that white will be able to incrementally gain advantage and eventually a mid-game position will be dicovered that yields a won endgame with white. It will of course be kept secret by the uscf so as not to take away from the allure of chess discovery.

The facxt that computers/chess engines will get even stronger does not mean that chess might be a win for White. There have been billions of chess games played in the last few hundred years. There is not one game Where White [ or Black] forced a win from move 1.

Phoenix-4

Dec 20, 2013

0

#443

Why do we play? Ans,- We play to win through our competitive spirit, the thing is that we win on our opponents mistakes. The challenge is that both players contest that they will not be the first to 'seed' such a mistake. A draw proves the equality. All the rest is ratings.

Xeelfiar

Dec 20, 2013

0

#444

Because we are humans and we always make mistakes

Phoenix-4

Dec 20, 2013

0

#445

One thing is for sure,- 'there is no forced win in chess'. If it were the case then nobody would bother to play the game. So therein lies the answer-neither side can force win so the game must be drawn with best play. I rest my case, and agree with ponz111, - and my betters, the Masters!!

satorichess

Dec 20, 2013

0

#446

Sorry this is a stupid question, first of all because you have to proove it that your playing actually correspond to the best possible playing. Secondly because even if this is the case you cannot be sure of the outcome still, depending on wheather you play black or white and that's still have to be prooven by the fastest computer (and probably never will).Third just play your games and win if you can and don't worry too much about universal problem which don't bother you, that's all about chess and life.

bigpoison

Dec 20, 2013

0

#447

Grimwell wrote:

Baseball is a draw with best play from both sides, but we still play that. And in a hundred some years of trying, no pair of teams has come together yet to play a game that lasted infinite innings. Probably never will.

Same deal with chess, pretty much.

Called because of darkness:

----------------1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 - R
Washington 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0
Detroit 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0

ponz111

Dec 20, 2013

0

#448

satorichess wrote:

Sorry this is a stupid question, first of all because you have to proove it that your playing actually correspond to the best possible playing. Secondly because even if this is the case you cannot be sure of the outcome still, depending on wheather you play black or white and that's still have to be prooven by the fastest computer (and probably never will).Third just play your games and win if you can and don't worry too much about universal problem which don't bother you, that's all about chess and life.

You make a lot of assumptions here. Why do you have to prove chess is a draw with best play? Why do you think [seem to think] you playing a chess game will prove or disprove anything?

Why would you have to "worry" that chess is a draw? [or not a draw]

I do agree that you should play your games to win and not to "worry" about the "universal problem" [presume you mean chess is a draw question].

waffllemaster

Dec 20, 2013

0

#449

TheARBChessSystem wrote:

We Play!..Because there is a Chance We can change the Result!

You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear. Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live. Why?

Same idea.

Sangwin

Dec 20, 2013

0

#450

waffllemaster wrote:

TheARBChessSystem wrote:

We Play!..Because there is a Chance We can change the Result!

You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear. Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live. Why?

Same idea.

because everyday the sun rises is a good day

and every day I set up the pieces on the black and white, I enjoy the fight~

fabelhaft

Dec 20, 2013

0

#451

Because it's so easy to avoid losing by just playing the best move all the time?

waffllemaster

Dec 20, 2013

0

#452

TheARBChessSystem wrote:

waffllemaster wrote:

TheARBChessSystem wrote:

We Play!..Because there is a Chance We can change the Result!

You, everyone you know, and everything you know, will one die die or disappear. Yet you still have goals and dreams and continue to live. Why?

Same idea.

Hope! is the Word! which could be Greater than Faith or Love ? another Discussion!

A.R.B

Yes, hope for the journey, not hope for the end result.

Danhartsmore

Sep 18, 2022

0

#453

Best play for both sides by The A.R.B Chess System

Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays ? The A.R.B Chess System

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKK1WbinfNk

Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays The (A.R.B.C.S) - Kings & Pawns Game - A.R.B :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFNvSLIzdDU

[Event "Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays ? The A.R.B Chess System : Short"]
[Date "2022.06.28"]
[Origin "Great Britain"]
[White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "0+300"]
[Time "300 Seconds Each Per Move"]
[WhiteElo "3500+"]
[BlackElo "3500+"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 "]
[EventDate "2022.06.28"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d6 3. Bd3 h6 4. Nf3 a6 5. O-O g6 6. c4 b6 7. Nc3 Bg7 8. Be3
Bb7 9. h3 Ne7 10. Qd2 Nd7 11. Rad1 g5 12. Ne2 O-O 13. d5 e5 14. Ng3 a5 15.
Bc2 Bc8 16. h4 f6 17. Qe2 Nc5 18. Nf5 Bd7 19. b3 Rf7 20. Nd2 Qc8 21. g4 Ng6
22. Kh1 Bf8 23. Rg1 Rh7 24. h5 Nf4 25. Bxf4 gxf4 26. Ra1 Qe8 27. Nf3 Nb7
28. N3h4 Nd8 29. f3 Rb8 30. a3 c5 31. Kg2 Nf7 32. Bd3 Ng5 33. Rgb1 Bc8 34.
Rb2 Ra7 35. Qf1 Bd7 36. a4 Qd8 37. Qd1 Kf7 38. Rf2 Kg8 39. Rb2 Nf7 40. Rc1
Rab7 41. Bf1 Rc8 42. Rd2 Ng5 43. Be2 Rbb8 44. Rc3 Rc7 45. Qe1 Ra7 46. Kg1
Nh3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Rb2 Qc7 49. Qa1 Kh8 50. Bd1 Rbb7 51. Ke1 Kg8 52. Rc1
Kf7 53. Rd2 Ke8 54. Rd3 Qd8 55. Kf1 Ra8 56. Rd2 Kf7 57. Rb2 Nh7 58. Ke2
Rab8 59. Bc2 Qe8 60. Kf2 Ra8 61. Bb1 Rbb8 62. Ke2 Ng5 63. Ng6 Bxf5 64. exf5
Be7 65. Kf2 Qg8 66. Re1 Qg7 67. Nh4 Rg8 68. Be4 Qf8 69. Ng6 Qg7 70. Kg2 Ke8
71. Qd1 Bd8 72. Rb1 Ra7 73. Bc2 Be7 74. Rb2 Rb7 75. Kf2 Kf7 76. Kg2 Ra7 77.
Be4 Bd8 78. Rf2 Rd7 79. Qe2 Rb7 80. Qc2 Rc7 81. Qe2 Rd7 82. Qd2 Ra7 83.
Rfe2 Ke8 84. Qc2 Rb7 85. Nh4 Rb8 86. Kh1 Rb7 87. Ng2 Ra7 88. Ra1 Rd7 89.
Ne1 Ra7 90. Ng2 Rd7 91. Nh4 Rb7 92. Qd2 Ra7 93. Bd3 Kd7 94. Be4 Kc8 95. Ng2
Kd7 96. Ne1 Qf7 97. Bd3 Kc7 98. Be4 Rb7 99. Ng2 Qg7 100. Nh4 Rb8 101. Ng6
Rb7 102. Kg2 Kc8 103. Qc2 Bc7 104. Qc1 Rb8 105. Rb2 Kb7 106. Rab1 Ka7 107.
Ra2 Rbc8 108. Re2 Qd7 109. Rbb2 Qg7 110. Qd2 Rb8 111. Qc2 Qd7 112. Qd1 Qg7
113. Bb1 Rbe8 114. Be4 {50 moves rule} *

[Event "Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays ? The A.R.B Chess System : Analysis"]
[Date "2022.06.28"]
[Origin "Great Britain"]
[White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "0+300"]
[Time "300 Seconds Each Per Move"]
[WhiteElo "3500+"]
[BlackElo "3500+"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 "]
[EventDate "2022.06.28"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d6 {last book move} 3.
Bd3 h6 {Secures g5} 4. Nf3 a6 {Consolidates b5} 5. O-O g6 6. c4 b6 7. Nc3 Bg7
8. Be3 Bb7 9. h3 Ne7 {Black is behind in development.} 10. Qd2 Nd7 11. Rad1 g5
12. Ne2 (12. d5 Ng6 $14) 12... O-O 13. d5 {This push gains space} e5 (13... Nc5
14. Nfd4 $14) 14. Ng3 a5 15. Bc2 Bc8 16. h4 f6 17. Qe2 Nc5 18. Nf5 {
'the knight is the knight!'} Bd7 19. b3 {Controls a4} (19. Nxg7 Kxg7 20. Nh2
Ng6 $14) 19... Rf7 (19... Nxf5 $5 20. exf5 Qc8 $11) 20. Nd2 Qc8 21. g4 Ng6 22.
Kh1 (22. h5 Ne7 $14) 22... Bf8 (22... Nxh4 23. Nxh4 (23. Nxg7 $143 Rxg7 24. f3
h5 $15) 23... gxh4 24. Rg1 $11) 23. Rg1 Rh7 24. h5 {White gets more space} Nf4
25. Bxf4 gxf4 26. Ra1 Qe8 27. Nf3 Nb7 28. N3h4 Nd8 29. f3 Rb8 30. a3 c5 31. Kg2
Nf7 32. Bd3 Ng5 33. Rgb1 Bc8 34. Rb2 Ra7 35. Qf1 Bd7 36. a4 Qd8 37. Qd1 Kf7 38.
Rf2 Kg8 39. Rb2 Nf7 (39... Kf7 40. Ng6 $14) 40. Rc1 Rab7 41. Bf1 Rc8 42. Rd2
Ng5 43. Be2 Rbb8 44. Rc3 Rc7 45. Qe1 Ra7 46. Kg1 Nh3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Rb2 Qc7
49. Qa1 Kh8 50. Bd1 Rbb7 51. Ke1 Kg8 52. Rc1 Kf7 53. Rd2 Ke8 54. Rd3 Qd8 55.
Kf1 (55. Ng6 Kf7 $14) 55... Ra8 (55... Kf7 56. Qc3 $14) 56. Rd2 Kf7 57. Rb2 Nh7
58. Ke2 Rab8 59. Bc2 Qe8 60. Kf2 (60. Re1 Ng5 $14) 60... Ra8 61. Bb1 Rbb8 62.
Ke2 Ng5 {A valuable piece} 63. Ng6 Bxf5 64. exf5 (64. gxf5 Qd7 $16) 64... Be7
65. Kf2 Qg8 66. Re1 Qg7 67. Nh4 Rg8 68. Be4 Qf8 69. Ng6 Qg7 70. Kg2 Ke8 71. Qd1
Bd8 72. Rb1 Ra7 73. Bc2 (73. Re2 Ra8 $16) 73... Be7 74. Rb2 Rb7 75. Kf2 Kf7 76.
Kg2 (76. Ke2 Rgb8 $16) 76... Ra7 (76... Ke8 77. Kh2 $14) 77. Be4 Bd8 78. Rf2
Rd7 79. Qe2 Rb7 80. Qc2 Rc7 81. Qe2 (81. Rfe2 Ke8 $14) 81... Rd7 (81... Rb7 $5
$11 {has some apparent merit}) 82. Qd2 Ra7 83. Rfe2 Ke8 84. Qc2 Rb7 85. Nh4 Rb8
86. Kh1 Rb7 87. Ng2 Ra7 88. Ra1 Rd7 89. Ne1 Ra7 90. Ng2 Rd7 91. Nh4 Rb7 92. Qd2
Ra7 93. Bd3 Kd7 94. Be4 Kc8 95. Ng2 Kd7 96. Ne1 (96. Rae1 Kc8 $14) 96... Qf7
97. Bd3 Kc7 98. Be4 {A sound move} Rb7 99. Ng2 {Manoeuvre Ne1-g2-h4-g6} Qg7
100. Nh4 Rb8 101. Ng6 {White can be proud of that piece} Rb7 102. Kg2 Kc8 103.
Qc2 Bc7 104. Qc1 Rb8 105. Rb2 (105. Qc3 Bd8 $14) 105... Kb7 $11 106. Rab1 Ka7 (
106... Qf7 107. Re2 $11) 107. Ra2 (107. Re2 Qd7 $14) 107... Rbc8 (107... Ka6
108. Qe1 $14) 108. Re2 $11 Qd7 109. Rbb2 Qg7 110. Qd2 Rb8 111. Qc2 (111. Kf1
Rbe8 $16) 111... Qd7 112. Qd1 Qg7 ({Inferior is} 112... Nxe4 113. Rxe4 Ka8 114.
Rbe2 $16) 113. Bb1 Rbe8 114. Be4 *

[Event "The (A.R.B.C.S) - Kings & Pawns Game - Stockfish 15 NNUE : Short"]
[Date "2022.06.28"]
[Origin "Great Britain"]
[White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "0+600"]
[Time "600 Seconds Each Per Move"]
[WhiteElo "3500+"]
[BlackElo "3500+"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k3/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
[EventDate "2022.06.28"]
1. d4 d5 2. Kd2 Kd7 3. Kd3 Kd6 4. e4 e5 5. exd5 Kxd5 6. c4+ Kd6 7. b4 f5 8.
h4 g6 9. Ke3 c6 10. dxe5+ Kxe5 11. f4+ Ke6 12. Kd3 Kd6 13. Kd4 b5 14. Kd3
Ke7 15. a3 a6 16. g3 Kd7 17. Kd4 Kd6 18. Kd3 Ke6 19. Kd4 Kd6 20. Kd3 c5 21.
Kc3 Kc6 22. h5 gxh5 23. Kd3 Kb6 24. Kc3 Kc6 25. Kb3 Kb7 26. cxb5 axb5 27.
bxc5 Kc6 28. Kb4 h6 29. Kc3 Kxc5 30. Kb3 Kc6 31. Kc3 Kc5 32. Kb3 Kc6 33.
Kc3 h4 34. gxh4 Kd5 35. Kb4 Ke4 36. Kxb5 Kxf4 37. a4 Kg3 38. a5 f4 39. a6
f3 40. a7 f2 41. a8=Q f1=Q+ 42. Kb4 Qf4+ 43. Kc3 Qf3+ 44. Qxf3+ Kxf3 45.
Kd2 Kg3 46. h5 Kg4 47. Ke3 Kxh5 48. Kf4 Kg6 49. Kg4 h5+ 50. Kh4 Kh6 51. Kh3
Kg5 52. Kh2 Kh4 53. Kg2 Kg4 54. Kh2 h4 55. Kg2 Kf4 56. Kh2 Kg4 57. Kg2 Kf4
58. Kh3 Kg5 59. Kh2 Kg4 {3-fold repetition} *

[Event "The (A.R.B.C.S) - Kings & Pawns Game - Stockfish 15 NNUE : Analysis"]
[Date "2022.06.28"]
[Origin "Great Britain"]
[White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "0+600"]
[Time "600 Seconds Each Per Move"]
[WhiteElo "3500+"]
[BlackElo "3500+"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4k3/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/4K3 w - - 0 1"]
[EventDate "2022.06.28"]
1. d4 d5 2. Kd2 Kd7 3. Kd3 Kd6 4. e4 e5 5. exd5 Kxd5 6. c4+ Kd6 7. b4 f5 8. h4
g6 9. Ke3 c6 10. dxe5+ Kxe5 11. f4+ Ke6 12. Kd3 Kd6 13. Kd4 b5 14. Kd3 Ke7 15.
a3 a6 16. g3 Kd7 17. Kd4 Kd6 18. Kd3 Ke6 19. Kd4 Kd6 20. Kd3 c5 21. Kc3 Kc6 22.
h5 gxh5 23. Kd3 Kb6 24. Kc3 Kc6 25. Kb3 Kb7 26. cxb5 (26. Kc3 $142 $5 {
might be a viable alternative} Kb6 27. Kb3 $11) 26... axb5 $17 27. bxc5 Kc6 28.
Kb4 h6 29. Kc3 Kxc5 30. Kb3 Kc6 31. Kc3 Kc5 (31... Kd5 32. Kb4 Ke4 33. Kxb5 $17
) 32. Kb3 Kc6 (32... Kd5 33. Kb4 Ke4 34. Kxb5 $17) 33. Kc3 h4 34. gxh4 Kd5 35.
Kb4 Ke4 36. Kxb5 Kxf4 37. a4 Kg3 38. a5 f4 39. a6 f3 40. a7 f2 41. a8=Q f1=Q+
42. Kb4 Qf4+ (42... Kxh4 $6 43. Qe4+ Kg5 44. Qe7+ Kg4 45. Qe6+ Qf5 46. Qxh6
Qe4+ 47. Kc5 Qc2+ 48. Kd4 Qa4+ 49. Kc3 Qa3+ 50. Kc4 Qa2+ 51. Kb4 Qb2+ 52. Kc5
Qc3+ 53. Kd5 Qf3+ 54. Ke5 Qe2+ 55. Kd4 Qd1+ 56. Kc4 Qf1+ 57. Kc5 Qf2+ 58. Kb5
Qe2+ 59. Kc5 Qe5+ 60. Kc4 $11) 43. Kc3 Qf3+ (43... Qxh4 $142 44. Qe8 Qf4 $19)
44. Qxf3+ $11 Kxf3 45. Kd2 Kg3 46. h5 Kg4 47. Ke3 Kxh5 48. Kf4 Kg6 49. Kg4 h5+
50. Kh4 Kh6 51. Kh3 Kg5 52. Kh2 Kh4 {Black activates its king} 53. Kg2 Kg4 54.
Kh2 h4 55. Kg2 Kf4 56. Kh2 Kg4 57. Kg2 Kf4 58. Kh3 Kg5 59. Kh2 Kg4 (59... Kg4
60. Kh1 h3 $11) *