Kramnik Suing Chess.com

ladies and gentlemen the chess drama
0:02
truly does not stop it is currently
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November 30th 2023 today is actually
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Magnus Carlson's birthday happy birthday
0:09
Magnus but we have bigger things to
0:11
discuss in today's update of the new
0:14
chess cheating scandal between the 14th
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World chess champion Grandmaster
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Vladimir karnick and Grandmaster hikara
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Kamura I am going to let you know of
0:21
some wild developments first of all
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chess.com put out a report that said we
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found zero wrongdoing in over 2,000
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reports that we have run on Hikaru
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Vladimir responded and he is considering
0:34
legal action against chess.com for
0:37
various wrongdoings in his own words be
0:40
prepared for this update but first I
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back to the video okay it's me I'm back
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thank you to sponsored Gotham my friends
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this is this is craziness tldr the 302
2:07
version of this story about a week ago
2:09
here in late November 2023 Grandmaster
2:12
Vladimir karnick put on his chess.com
2:14
page that Hikaru has recently pulled off
2:17
Monster winning streaks in Blitz chess
2:19
to the total of 45 a half out of 46 and
2:22
everybody would find this interesting
2:24
and that's all Vladimir was saying now
2:26
Vladimir has been on an anti- cheater
2:28
Crusade and for a lot of the things he
2:30
said I I was willing to listen I was I
2:32
actually agreed with some of the things
2:34
that he was saying I think in prize
2:35
money tournaments online the risk of
2:37
cheating is massive and cheating poses
2:39
an existential threat to chess for years
2:42
to come now with all these little
2:44
devices that you can you know put
2:45
anywhere uh and uh they could help you
2:48
win a chess now he went after Hikaru uh
2:52
but Vladimir said that it wasn't an
2:55
accusation and that it was just he
2:58
doesn't think anybody is above the law
2:59
and he thinks that everybody should be
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fairly investigated so ch.com put this
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out all right they said look at this
3:06
Magnus it's because it's magna's
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birthday uh we take all cheating
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accusations seriously in the case of
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recent accusations against Hikaru we've
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generated over 2,000 reports and we have
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found no incidents of cheating this is
3:20
the report charles.com has permit yeah
3:23
yeah best platform for both casual
3:25
professional players we invest heavily
3:26
in protecting the game with
3:27
state-of-the-art algorithms and
3:28
proctoring they do they do they they
3:30
they they really do uh ch.com takes
3:32
chess very seriously with clear evidence
3:34
when clear evidence exists we act even
3:37
last month they closed 55,000 accounts
3:39
including six title players which is
3:41
pretty wild six title players were
3:43
banned in October we've closed hundreds
3:46
of title players dozens of grand Masters
3:48
and four players in the world top 100 so
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chess.com is pretty damn confident when
3:54
they think they have the right
3:55
statistics aligned to ban a player off
3:58
of their platform now by the way we can
4:00
have a whole separate conversation as to
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like should this stuff be made public
4:03
right in any professional sport when a
4:05
player pops for drug use substance use
4:09
illegal substance use they are suspended
4:11
publicly it's not Hush Hush right
4:13
because then they just won't play
4:15
anymore right now the way it stands here
4:17
on on you know in the online chess world
4:19
if you get banned by chess.com you you
4:21
frequently nobody says anything publicly
4:23
but we can we can discuss that later we
4:26
recognize due to the extreme competitive
4:27
nature test that always be correct and
4:29
incorrect accusations of cheating we all
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take we take them all seriously actually
4:32
in the coming weeks they're going to be
4:33
announcing further measures anyway in
4:35
the case of recent accusations against
4:37
Yaro by Vladimir kramnick we can say
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that we have generated 2,000 individual
4:40
reports on karo's games which probably
4:42
means they've analyzed tens of thousands
4:44
of games um hi car's incredible
4:47
performance including 45 a half out of
4:49
46 we've looked at the statistics our
4:51
team has done the math in various
4:52
simulations of streaks for a player like
4:54
hikaru's played more than 50,000 games
4:57
we have found that not only is a 45 game
4:58
winning streak possible it's like it's
5:00
likely given the number of games played
5:02
right Monte Carlo simulation how many
5:04
times can a player achieve such a streak
5:07
within data sets of let's say a thousand
5:09
games we have confirmed these results
5:11
with external statisticians including a
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professor of Statistics at a top 10
5:14
University with the deepest respect for
5:17
world champion Vladimir karnick in our
5:19
opinion his accusations lack statistical
5:21
Merit and it is signed you guys couldn't
5:24
see that last part uh it it sorry it uh
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it is signed by uh Dan
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and Eric of ch.com
5:32
now the one of the earlier statements
5:34
that was put out actually like had a
5:36
small paragraph about chat GPT which got
5:39
oh I have some Twitter notifications uh
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which got a little bit of like you know
5:42
people were like oh chat GPT I actually
5:44
don't think they it was since removed um
5:47
but I I I I don't think it was like the
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chat GPT basic model I mean I'm pretty
5:53
sure chat GPT 4 is a bit more than a
5:56
language learning model I mean it it
5:58
probably the statement in and of itself
6:00
that they verified with a professor of
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Statistics at a top 10 University is
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good enough um but I think you know all
6:06
of these AI language learning models
6:07
like the boosted version of them could
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probably run some numbers but
6:12
regardless um this is the statement all
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right uh we're going to go back full
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screen on me for a second look I don't
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think anybody expected anything
6:22
different and that's not like I'm not a
6:25
conspiracy theorist okay like I just
6:27
like full disclosure I mean I'm not I'm
6:30
not you know I'm not on on the side
6:32
that's like well even well even if he
6:34
was they did find something wrong they
6:36
just wouldn't say like no no no let stop
6:39
in 2023 for some reason it's become so
6:42
difficult to just like accept Truth by
6:44
like anybody every like no that's
6:46
suspicious no I think we just kind of
6:49
expected this okay like hikaru's upside
6:54
of cheating in random 40 45 game streaks
6:58
of Blitz it's like I don't know I
7:00
somehow it was not the most compelling
7:02
argument we listen to the stats team
7:04
that clearly bans Grand Masters and top
7:07
100 players when they think necessary
7:09
this is not it's not the reality now
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here's the
7:13
thing
7:14
um Vladimir obviously was not satisfied
7:18
uh I'm going to show you his response in
7:20
a second but the truth is can we just
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take a step back like what did Vladimir
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think was going to happen when he
7:25
brought this
7:27
up what did did like was Vladimir did
7:31
did he want hikara to be found
7:33
guilty like what what was the verdict in
7:36
his mind right because it's either
7:37
guilty or not guilty it's binary I mean
7:39
it's not so did he want a more
7:42
compelling case for the not-guilty like
7:44
who is the professor and what methods
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were
7:47
used well let's see and and actually uh
7:51
kramnick has has talked about
7:52
potentially pursuing legal action um but
7:55
not for the reasons you would think I
7:58
have lately received so Vladimir has
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changed his profile photo on chess.com
8:03
uh it is now no longer uh him it is the
8:08
petition that he has asked to be
8:10
signed uh for players to be investigated
8:14
and there's an amount of signatures now
8:16
the petition is kind of oh my God yeah
8:19
it's very like people are meing on it a
8:21
bit they're like signing it as different
8:23
names and everything but um I mean okay
8:27
it is a petition at the end of the day
8:28
it's fine on top of various personal
8:30
insults Vladimir has received physical
8:32
threats from members of the
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platform um he's reported them numerous
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times he has not received a single
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answer from chess.com those two already
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overstep anything is serious decent
8:43
company can allow on their
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platform um so he was saying that those
8:48
people aren't banned so basically
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Vladimir is saying uh that we might
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disagree somewhat about certain matters
8:53
but the behavior of certain people on
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chess.com is above imaginable humanly
8:57
and legally at least my lawyers checking
8:59
the case might start an official case
9:01
against the platform after my
9:04
consultations with them uh then he
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responded to the actual statement but he
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has been posting some of the things he
9:09
has been receiving uh I hate to give
9:11
this stuff attention um and uh you know
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what I I I I might even make the
9:16
decision now that I won't uh I mean this
9:18
person has now been banned on ch.com
9:21
um and uh this person just wrote
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something really really nasty to
9:26
Vladimir uh and you know all all I will
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say here just in the like it look two
9:33
things can be true at the same time
9:35
number one you should not hide behind
9:40
anonymity to message people horrible
9:44
things okay I mean I have received
9:47
thousands over the last few just all
9:50
some of the most vile heinous things
9:53
that people have said to me
9:55
right now in my case I'm just like this
9:58
is the internet all right 99.99% of you
10:01
have nothing but positive things to say
10:02
actually a huge amount of you just watch
10:04
the video and don't even comment like
10:05
these videos have 400,000 views and a
10:07
thousand comments right like a lot of
10:09
people just watch like they don't need
10:10
to comment shout out to you if you're
10:12
lurking you know just enjoying the show
10:14
um but it's the Internet it's the
10:16
internet on Twitter on Instagram on
10:19
ch.com like the veil of anonymity
10:22
empowers people to be horrible
10:23
especially in these heated cases right
10:25
where a guy is calling for a guy's games
10:26
to be investigated hikaru's fans or
10:29
people again you you might just have a
10:31
teenager at home who deliberately writes
10:33
writes horrible things because he like
10:35
knows it's going to offend the other
10:36
party if you behave this way or have a
10:38
friend that behaves this way you should
10:40
stop behaving this way and tell your
10:41
friend to stop behaving this way because
10:43
all the advice that I give to the Young
10:44
Generation is your time is running out
10:45
like at some point in the future if you
10:48
don't cut these bad habits out of your
10:49
life you're going to get punched in the
10:50
face now some people improve as
10:52
individuals after getting punched in the
10:53
face I don't know um on the flip side of
10:56
that it's the internet like I really
10:58
hate this to say it but Vladimir's DMS
11:01
are open I I have my chat off on
11:02
chess.com I have my messages off on
11:04
chess.com okay Vladimir doesn't and so
11:07
like when you get into this case that's
11:09
going to have millions of eyeballs on it
11:11
statistically speaking you speaking of
11:14
Statistics right and we can call the
11:15
mathematicians and confirm this you can
11:17
have some
11:18
scumbags you can't sue a
11:22
platform because a troll message you
11:24
something horrible now in the case of
11:26
physical
11:27
violence that you know and that that's
11:30
which Vladimir has reported as well yes
11:32
that is like horrible and probably
11:35
actionable I don't know I'm not a
11:37
lawyer but it's you know it's like the
11:40
internet and I just I feel for Vladimir
11:42
because I don't know what's going on
11:44
anymore you know um let let's take a
11:47
look at like what I mean by I don't know
11:49
what's going on anymore it's
11:51
like what is Vladimir's end goal I mean
11:54
I I almost feel like he he just started
11:56
using social media more like a year ago
11:59
Vlad this is just how it is man you know
12:02
it's like if if you start arguing about
12:04
your favorite football player your
12:06
favorite Cricket player like your
12:07
favorite basketball player people are
12:09
just going to say horrible things to you
12:10
it's like I you know but it's not
12:12
excusable and it's it actionable but
12:16
what does Vladimir want does he want
12:17
people to be banned in like 30 minutes
12:19
they they're banned they're banned it
12:20
took I don't know it took 24 to 48 hours
12:22
I the whole thing is just odd now
12:25
Vladimir said I have briefly checked
12:27
this statement of ch.com have several
12:29
things to say with the deepest respect
12:30
to Danny and Eric he didn't spell Eric's
12:33
name right but the respect is still
12:34
there calling my recent efforts on
12:37
helping improving anti-cheating
12:38
efficiency of chess's platform
12:40
accusations of Karo by Vladimir kramnick
12:43
is clear public disinformation which
12:46
obviously can cause huge image damages
12:48
for me therefore I offer the chess.com
12:50
platform 24 hours time frame to exclude
12:52
and refuted the sentence from this
12:54
report together with public
12:57
apologies again
12:59
again
13:01
again
13:03
Vladimir literally like like a week you
13:08
know like like 72 hours ago was saying
13:11
in a different post that I you know I
13:13
don't want to go and pull up now
13:14
probably should have before I made this
13:15
video he was saying that he has evidence
13:18
that's going to knock Hikaru out like
13:20
that is a comment that he wrote it's in
13:22
a video that I posted I don't know how
13:25
Vladimir could possibly I this is the
13:29
source of confusion for me like what was
13:32
he thinking what what
13:37
was I agree with Vladimir nobody is
13:41
above the law everybody is fair to be
13:43
investigated in their games but what was
13:45
the end goal of all of this why did he
13:50
start this with like no statistics and
13:52
then say I'm going to publish more
13:54
statistics and then those statistics
13:56
were just more streaks that's all
13:58
published he just published how many
13:59
times hearo beat a certain average
14:01
rating and now it's it's this it's you
14:04
know again what like what was the end
14:06
goal of all of this I mean it was
14:07
content we're getting content out of
14:09
this I guess anyway he said I will start
14:11
a legal case against chess.com next week
14:15
if this is not done within 24 hours this
14:17
was posted 12:59 p.m. November 29th it's
14:21
currently 10:33 chess.com has got two
14:23
hours and 26 minutes they got two hours
14:25
and 26 minutes I'm going to refresh it
14:28
and it
14:29
says recent accusations against I mean
14:33
bro I don't know what's happening here
14:34
boys and girls like I we are headed down
14:36
a certain
14:37
path and and he said I expect apologies
14:40
regarding non-acting of my report of
14:42
abuse again what does this mean like
14:45
they did act on it like was there did he
14:47
expect it to be
14:49
immediate this is what I don't
14:52
know of course the the threats the
14:55
threats are terrible they're awful I'm
14:56
not
14:57
saying you I'm I'm literally telling you
15:00
guys if you behave this way online you
15:01
are a piece of garbage stop messaging
15:04
people awful things about themselves or
15:06
their you won't it's just statistics
15:08
it's just the odds of you know it could
15:10
be one in 10,000 it's still one in
15:12
10,000 people are going to write people
15:14
horrible things but oh my goodness um I
15:18
haven't received any answers about users
15:20
making criminal statements and he was
15:22
only banned only after my post a couple
15:24
of days later I can understand people
15:27
working on the platform can make
15:28
mistakes strongly believe admitting and
15:29
apologizing is the only path the
15:32
petition asking ch.com and publish the
15:34
results after this presumably long
15:35
examination collected 2 signatures in a
15:37
few days and then he posted a couple of
15:40
other things of people saying terrible
15:41
things to him um it's not good you know
15:45
I I I I don't want to show it I don't
15:47
want to show it because I don't want to
15:48
give those people a stage but as you can
15:50
see here he's posting more stuff and now
15:53
Vladimir said now let's talk about the
15:54
research done by the world's best
15:56
anti-cheating team provided by approved
15:58
by their my serious top
15:59
Professor this is really strange
16:03
highlighting but I will try to read it
16:05
our team has done the math and various
16:07
simulations of streaks for a player like
16:09
hikaro being just some ignorant person
16:12
without a clue about statistics this
16:14
detailed report raised questions after
16:16
Consulting with ma mathematicians I
16:18
would like to ask you where from is this
16:21
number 50,000 games is it counting all
16:24
time controls and opposition level if
16:26
yes obviously it's wrong using it
16:28
measuring probabilities of 3-minute
16:30
games versus a certain level of average
16:31
rating players if not there's much less
16:33
games to consider okay he basically
16:36
saying did ch.com analyze every single
16:38
one of hikaru's games like when he plays
16:39
against viewers or what right like what
16:42
or or or did they analy you know or did
16:44
they analyze just games against strong
16:46
players did you include calculations how
16:48
many streaks like that occur during the
16:50
period of your 50,000 games I suppose
16:52
this would change completely
16:53
probabilities from your sophisticated
16:55
report we conclude you were talking
16:56
about the probability of one such streak
16:59
please let us know since according to
17:00
your statement there's a major obvious
17:01
mistake okay I appreciate the efforts of
17:04
your mathematicians but to start with
17:06
that streak wasn't 40 plus victories
17:08
there was some others 55 out of 55 buy
17:12
proper
17:13
calculators yours is old and broken I
17:15
suspect on top it is not about
17:17
necessarily winning streaks but for
17:19
example huge over performance in dozens
17:21
of consecutive games what matters here
17:23
but since you skip mentioning such a
17:25
parameter I assume you didn't check this
17:27
I'm sure your people have checked the
17:28
probabilities of such players in a short
17:30
period of time from the amount of games
17:31
played during that time frame because
17:32
it's the correct method of measuring but
17:33
just forgot to mention in your report
17:36
please correct this since definitely
17:37
most important from tons of your numbers
17:39
gener generously provided deepest
17:41
respect Vladimir and that is where we
17:43
currently stand
17:46
um and Vladimir is saying that this
17:48
needs to be removed and the time frame
17:50
is expiring in about two hours look I'm
17:53
going to summarize this the exact same
17:55
way I've been summarizing this for the
17:58
last couple of videos
18:01
okay
18:03
um I have a tremendous amount of respect
18:05
for Vladimir kik's contributions to
18:07
chess over his entire career in fact I
18:10
have respect for his being so outspoken
18:14
and trying to attempt to you know talk
18:17
about top level cheating like not top
18:19
four four players out of a top 100 I
18:21
mean like top 30 grand Masters in the
18:22
world I also subscribe to the theory
18:24
that it's extremely difficult to catch
18:27
cheaters if they do it in an intelligent
18:29
way like it it is it is a very very
18:31
serious existential
18:33
problem
18:35
but I don't understand any of his
18:38
decision making regarding this case none
18:41
of it at all none of it at all makes any
18:43
sense to me number one if he really
18:46
truly believes that hikaro has cheated
18:49
and is cheating and he in karnick own
18:52
words has had many private conversations
18:54
brought to his attention about hiar
18:57
that's what he said and hikaro himself
18:59
has stated dubov has been suspicious of
19:01
him right I think that was what hikaro
19:02
said I don't know if he mentioned other
19:04
Grand
19:05
Masters why did Kramnik do it this way
19:08
why why why did he do it one step at a
19:10
time like why would you not have a
19:13
more structured approach to like filing
19:16
some sort of formal
19:17
complaint instead of doing it the way he
19:19
has number two it's like what is the end
19:21
goal of all of this because at the end
19:23
of the day chess.com is going to come
19:24
out and say we have all the metrics we
19:27
don't think the guy is cheating
19:28
so now it's
19:30
like what what is KCK what is what is
19:33
the next step is it okay all right I you
19:36
know I thought he should be investigated
19:38
and it seems like he's clear of all
19:40
wrongdoing great or are we going to
19:43
continue to argue over the methods used
19:45
like is there ever a World in which that
19:47
Kramnick is going to sit back and say you
19:48
know what you guys did everything I
19:49
asked and hikaru's innocent and that's
19:53
okay right now Kramnik is saying he
19:55
wasn't accusing the guy he just doesn't
19:56
believe anybody anybody's is above the
19:58
law and if they don't remove the thing
19:59
that he accused
20:01
him then he's going to take legal action
20:04
right and now karnick is also posting
20:06
things which are saying it is violation
20:09
of like California state law to write
20:13
threats to people of physical violence
20:16
and harm to their family which I have
20:17
already addressed is like scumbag
20:19
Behavior you are all horrible people if
20:20
you participate in that
20:25
but what is even going on anymore I I am
20:29
so the whole thing is just so
20:32
weird and I love how no other top player
20:35
is like saying anything it's just chess
20:37
world is so
20:39
weird the whole thing is so weird but
20:42
there's still so many questions how are
20:45
we going to handle cheating in the
20:46
future if a top 50 Grandmaster is banned
20:48
on chess.com should that restrict them
20:50
from playing over the board tournaments
20:51
should the World Chess Federation feed a
20:53
partner with chess.com to have some sort
20:54
of committee that I don't I don't know
20:58
no
20:59
I the whole thing is so weird that's all
21:02
I have for you today all right we're
21:04
going to have another h100 million
21:05
lawsuit in the Chess
21:07
World anyway just get out of here