Petition to change time control to 30 sec 🥲
🪓 2023 Original Solo (FFA) World 4 Player Chess Championships, 🏆 Season 5 ⚔️ DISCUSSION
Sort:
ChessMasterGS wrote:
Petition to change time control upvote to sign
I think half the participants should be Handpicked... while the other half should qualify by way of Arena. So if there area total of 32 players then at least 16 should be handpicked and the rest should be from Arena. Something like this... not necessarily just like this.
nah 30% max should be handpicked/stats/leaderboard and previous winner (1 player) even if you have 15% and 15% that's a lot. So if 16 players will compete, handpicked should be 3-4+1 or 5+1 max
"Most of these issues have been resolved although it is my understanding that many players may still be upset regarding the Merge." : MOST of the problems have been solved, YES. And the server has become much more stable (finally), after very hard and frustrating months. What clearly remains, that's the mess represented by the current site structure (I sent to BabYagun quite some pages about how to address that, IMHO).
As for the championship. Unless we want it to be amateurish, it is extremely important that a) we be sure to select the best players for the final stages, but b) giving still chances to the weaker ones to get to the final stages (otherwise it would've been enough to select the highest rated, period) and c) we address the clear no-show problem.
Hence my proposal:
- I do not think it is good to oblige the world elite to re-qualify (ruining other players' chances quite often, and also making them lose their time mainly), that's why I suggest the 20 players from the Rapid leaderboard be qualified automatically (BUT they'll have to confirm officially if they take part or not),
- then you organise 8 5-hours Arenas (or more, if someone from the Top 20 doesn't want to take part...) where you pick the 2 winners per Arena. TWO, not one. Because what I could see in the previous editions, very often reasonably strong players couldn't qualify because someone much stronger won and they got 2nd, sometimes even 4-5 times 2nd (!). Not fair.
- 20 + 16 = 36 players. The 32 highest rated will be the Semi-Finalists, the 4 others will be Official Subs. And nobody else.
- By order of ratings, the players are distributed among 8 groups of 4. They play two or three (or, very exceptionally, four) games, until there are TWO winners (and only the official subs are entitled to replace a player; if a sub wins once, he DOES pass to the next stage...). I.e. two players per group pass (again, it's much fairer and we'll be sure to get the best players and not just someone winning by luck).
- it will give 16 players. ALL the eliminated players will become the official subs (hence 20 subs), who will be able to join further games: the organisers will ask to the players who will be online at the moment of a match, BY ORDER OF THEIR RATING (among the 20 players of the official list).
- the 16 players will play again in 4 groups, with 2 or 3 games, until there are 8 winners. The 8 others will be the official subs for the next stage.
- 3rd stage: there are only 2 groups of 4 players, who again with play 2 or 3 games, until there are 4 winners, who will become the official finalists. The other 4 will be the official subs for the next stage.
- the 4th and last stage: the finalists play until anyone reaches 3 victories (maximum 3 matches per day). Therefore there will be 1, 2 or 3 days maximum (9 games).
ProfBlundermaster wrote:
I think half the participants should be Handpicked... while the other half should qualify by way of Arena. So if there area total of 32 players then at least 16 should be handpicked and the rest should be from Arena. Something like this... not necessarily just like this.
That would be unfair
I also think its reasonable that the top 20 get invited (their choice to accept or decline) and there are arenas for the other 15 spots (assuming a returning champion's participation) though I could be biased 
. However, I think the approach is warranted as in all previous years those in the top 20 who fought for qualification spots got them anyway. I also thought it was ridiculous that because of tie-breaks people with the much higher ratings had to win MORE games than any one else otherwise even if they had an even amount of wins with anyone else it would be insufficient for qualification. I know I had to win 4 games in a row last year and some people even more just to qualify because of the tie-breaks which to me is absurd and certainly not sustainable.
I think the arena system is flawed in that there was a luck factor involved in whether or not you could win a certain amount of games in a row. Usually if you lost a game, you were out, and it could be for an unavoidable reason like a lower rated player playing bad in the 3 Player stage.
In addition, because the admins haven’t told us (or reminded us, rather) exactly what “handpicked” means, the majority of the community is just going to vote against it.
ChessMasterGS wrote:
I think the arena system is flawed in that there was a luck factor involved in whether or not you could win a certain amount of games in a row. Usually if you lost a game, you were out, and it could be for an unavoidable reason like a lower rated player playing bad in the 3 Player stage.
In addition, because the admins haven’t told us (or reminded us, rather) exactly what “handpicked” means, the majority of the community is just going to vote against it.
Apologies that “handpicked” was unclear. I did not discuss exactly how many from each category would be chosen. I wanted to leave that up for vote if Handpicked was chosen.
“Leaderboard” means a few (something like three to eight) get selected from the leaderboard screenshotted at some time, say May 27, 2023 at 00:00 UTC.
”Performance” is defined as total placement (1st=1; 2-4th=0) times the average rating played against over the most recent rated 36 FFA 4-Player Rapid games, all of which must be played between April 29-May 27 at 00:00 UTC. The highest performing three to eight players would be chosen.
”Knockout Qualifiers” would be organized in forums. The first, say, 16 players to “sign up” in each forum would compete in a single elimination knockout bracket first-to-2 with 1 player each bracket advancing to a final and one player from the final advancing to the W4PCC. Three to eight qualifiers.
Think of the 2020 Championship. As linked in the Announcement, “Handpicked” would be run similarly to that championship.
Does this help clarify things? Thanks
Yeah that helps
ChessMasterGS wrote:
I think the arena system is flawed in that there was a luck factor involved in whether or not you could win a certain amount of games in a row. Usually if you lost a game, you were out, and it could be for an unavoidable reason like a lower rated player playing bad in the 3 Player stage.
In addition, because the admins haven’t told us (or reminded us, rather) exactly what “handpicked” means, the majority of the community is just going to vote against it.
It's 100% true. It is not normal that the ORDER of your victories influences the final result, it's simply ridiculous.
It's funny we get new setup thrown to the face but it's so bad that the "world championship"is played in obsolete settings.
remiel16 wrote:
It's funny we get new setup thrown to the face but it's so bad that the "world championship"is played in obsolete settings.
Majority is likely New Standard at the moment. Who knows, we might get a new setup this year...
Hey Luke!
Dear 4PC-Community!
Here are my thoughts regarding the world championship:
Qualification:I prefer handpicked, but I think Arenas is the more fair format. But 2.2k is too low for the arenas. Every considerably good player is able to grind up to 2.5k before the qualifiers start. So if you make Arenas, please make it 2.5k.
But personally, I don't really care, I qualified 4 of 4 times so far through different qualification methods, and I am quite confident I will make it a 5th time.
Starting Position:New SetupWe are playing on Omatamix for more than a year now. If you want to make this the official world championship it has to be New Standard. If you want to make an Old Standard world championship that's fine, but the official one has to be played in the official standard.
If you decide to make it Old Standard, I might boycott.
Rating:I like all my games to be rated, but I think the world championship should be unrated because decisions within the championship should be made purely for the championship and not because of the rating.
Looking forward to the World championship
Cheers
Michael
I think non-rated is good. I also think there should be one long tournament for 31 people to pass in + last year's winner is good. 2,400+ or 2,500+
The official standard/ others are losing because new people see new oh yay a way to make good players worse. I see 9/10 games in the lobby are official standard and in the lobby, it is 49/50. I watch games and it is only the official standard. Is it a feature or?
I fully agree, it can't be OS, otherwise it doesn't make sense. The vast majority of the games played for now more than 1 year are Omatomix, and THE yearly event can't reasonably be anything else (even if a very narrow minority of players prefer OS, BY, BYG or something else).
I think Hest1805 should be invited to participate in the Championship with a special invitation (besides Icy, as a legend of this game). It would significantly raise the quality of the Championship.
Regarding the format of the Championship and the rules, everything I said last year I mean this year as well. Given that last year I wasted my time explaining why the Arenas are not good, why we should play for 3 and 4 wins (in the final) and other things, I don't want to repeat myself this year. It will be as Luke says, and since he is the organizer - that's how it should be.
My only interest is that the best players play in the Championship (because I enjoy playing with them the most... of course if I qualify). And that's why I'm asking you to think about a special invitation for Hest (Icy is already here, so he doesn't have to get it).
P.S. Also, Rojitto has been first on the Leaderboard all year, and that must be taken into consideration. To leave it to luck (Arenas) whether such a player will qualify or not is a huge stupidity!!!
go back to the old server
Hey Everyone,
Thank you all once again for participating and watching the World 4 Player Chess Championships (W4PCC)!
Chess.com will be hosting the fifth Original Solo/FFA W4PCC commencing Saturday, May 27, 2023.
The purpose of this discussion is to gather feedback from the community before officially finalizing it. The previous format will be adopted for the Solo (FFA) W4PCC unless certain formats are overturned, or the Director and Admins decide otherwise.
Straw Polls and updates may also be posted here. Most of the polling will occur on the Variants Server under the Variants Poll.
On a personal side note, I will be retiring from competing as a player in the W4PCC. 4 years was enough to see what it was like from a player's perspective. Other staff, admins, and referees are allowed to qualify/participate. They will be announced soon. @cha_chaRealSmooth will be this W4PCC's assistant tournament director!
I also apologize for all of the controversial decisions in the previous W4PCCs. While not all decisions made in regard to the format and disqualification of players will please everyone, there were some events that occurred during the previous W4PCCs that were caused by my bias and lack of communication. I am taking steps to ensure that this event gets handled fairly.
I furthermore apologize for the delays in announcing the W4PCC. There were numerous server issues and other issues regarding the Merge of 4PC to the Variants server. Most of these issues have been resolved although it is my understanding that many players may still be upset regarding the Merge. The purpose of this forum is to allow feedback and determine how to best represent a World Championship for 4 Player Chess.
Following this championship after taking into consideration the feedback of the community and administration, a championship for New Standard has been announced following this championship, "2023 Standard FFA W4PCC", which takes place June 15-July 2.
Please see the Announcement for further details.