Bulldog Endgame Theory

Sort:
captaintugwash

My plan was to take as long as possible to get into the corner, largely because I wanted to see if even that much could be forced. I did figure that once I was in the corner, it was still easy to hold, but I hadn't looked that far ahead yet and was still trying to avoid the corner.

Marks1420

A witch would make this endgame a win, though. 

captaintugwash

I would have thought so, yes. The guard can't block so easily.

Marks1420

Also @aronian22, me and tugwash have played an unrated "just for fun"game. 

PandasAwesome

@captaintugwash, you want to play that endgame with me?

PandasAwesome

the K + N + N vs K + W

captaintugwash
PandasAwesome wrote:

@captaintugwash, you want to play that endgame with me?

SUre but it won't be as fast as the one I just played, as I'm about to eat and then I'll wind down for the evening. But we can play it if you like. I don't know if it's winning or not for white.

Marks1420

I'm not that familiar with the Hunter, but I would think it is essentially K + N v K

Martin0

After chasing king into corner with hunter:

White can win with 1.Hc7 Kc8 2.Hb7 Kb8 3.Ha7 Ka8 4.Ha6#

I don't think winning with hunter should be any problem.

Marks1420

Oh, I forgot it can also jump two squares in a straight line.

aronian22
Martin0 wrote:

After chasing king into corner with hunter:

 

White can win with 1.Hc7 Kc8 2.Hb7 Kb8 3.Ha7 Ka8 4.Ha6#

I don't think winning with hunter should be any problem.

Agreed.

aronian22

By the way, with a non-rook-pawn and witch, the side with the pawn always wins. They waste a tempo instead of stalemating their opponent. 

Imagine the knight is the witch

 

aronian22
captaintugwash wrote:
PandasAwesome wrote:

how about K + Q vs K + G + B + N? A lot of pieces but could be interesting theory.

Well the queen obviously isn't winning. It's either a draw or a win for black.

This is probably a draw.

captaintugwash

I suspect it's a win for black, assuming black's pieces are close to his king. Black has enough defence to block checks while still making progress towards the white king. The guard is powerful in this endgame. 

K+Q vs K+G+N+N is a draw because white can sac the queen to eliminate the guard, but he can't do that against B+N.

aronian22

That's the thing. I'm not sure the black pieces can stop the queen's checks for long enough to evade the 50-move rule.

captaintugwash
aronian22 wrote:

That's the thing. I'm not sure the black pieces can stop the queen's checks for long enough to evade the 50-move rule.

The 50-move rule does complicate matters, and in practice it will likely mean in many cases technically won endgames are drawn, but if we're being optimal, I should imagine black can sufficiently defend his king while making progress.

aronian22
captaintugwash wrote:
aronian22 wrote:

That's the thing. I'm not sure the black pieces can stop the queen's checks for long enough to evade the 50-move rule.

The 50-move rule does complicate matters, and in practice it will likely mean in many cases technically won endgames are drawn, but if we're being optimal, I should imagine black can sufficiently defend his king while making progress.

I think theoretically it should be a win, but I'm a bit torn over the 50-move rule. I'm about 70% sure that it will usually come into play one way or another. There are certainly positions where black is winning, but there are also positions where they might not be.

Marks1420

Its a relatively easy win, no 50 move rule involved.

captaintugwash

I hadn't analysed, I did assume black can force the win without too much difficulty, but I wasn't confident in saying it can easily be done in 50 moves.

evert823
Marks1420 wrote:

K+G vs K is an easy win.  

 

Can't the lone King always escape to another corner when K+G try to push it in one corner?