Checkmate bug/ illogical conclusion

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Avatar of icystun

First yellow mated blue, then Green just played Qxg2 and it's mate, since I had no valid moves. However, there is a bad logic to this. Yellow had previously landed mate against blue, and actually made an unavoidable checkmate first, and would also execute a capture of the king first. I know it's supposed to be possible for the team to help out, but here it seems we mated first, but since I was in turn first, we lost, because the "empty moves" had to be played out. I would rather see a king capture to finish the game, then the first to mate actually wins....null

Avatar of MGleason

Weird situation.  Yeah, I think playing to king capture instead of mate resolves all the complications about who wins, who gets points, etc., in both teams and FFA.  This is just another such case.

In that case, you would have been able to take blue's queen with your king, and then blue couldn't escape yellow's queen.

Avatar of icystun

I guess it's all good, blue could capture my king in that case, so the checkmate was correct after all. Edit: of course my initial thought was correct. I could capture blue's queen, and yellow would capture the blue king.

Avatar of MGleason

No, because blue's queen wasn't protected by a blue piece.  If you take blue's queen with your king, green is going to kill you on your next turn, but yellow kills blue first.

Avatar of spacebar

blue's queen is defended by green's.

mating blue is too slow under the team rules. Qg11 seems to defend the mate.  and blue could capture the king first. i still wonder if waiting for king capture means you can ignore check? if that's the case i dont like it.

 

oh  green can also mate on h3 so gg

 

Avatar of MGleason

If you wait for king capture, you ignore check.  I don't see any other way for it to work.  And in that case, the fact that the blue queen is defended by a green piece is irrelevant.

Avatar of ChristopherYu

Because green and blue are teams, blue defended by green is the same as blue defended by blue. The only thing is that you guys checkmated first.

 

Avatar of ChristopherYu

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Avatar of spacebar

one could add a rule that countercheckmate doesn't count, only undoing a mate.

 

potentially (not in this example) green could unmate blue, and even red could theoretically be forced to unmate blue (if he were involved somehow, having to retreat to block a check thereby unmating..)

 

the way it is now, mating the guy to your right isn't checkmate. you can only mate the guy behind you, so your partner has to "do it" on his turn.

Avatar of spacebar

if he gets mated well i dunno wink.png

Avatar of The-Lone-Wolf

I think it's just fine the way it is, just another element to take into account... if it was "capture the king" then red could capture the blue queen by the king, so that blue can't take his king and before green can do it, yellow takes the blue one

also, if we were to go with "capture the king", a king could capture a protected piece (his partner might undefend it in time by capturing the defending piece or placing a piece to protect the king)... I don't think I would like this too much

Avatar of Bill13Cooper

It's fine the way it is. 

 

You always have a huge advantage on the player who plays before you,  and the player who playes right after you can really hurt you.

 

However,  in the case of checkmate, it's most efficient to mate the player who plays right after you, since this way the checkmate takes effect immidiatel

Team 4PC is extremely sharp and it's what makes the game so much fun. I find it much more interesting than free for all, because you get to exploit all the tactical possibilities that 4PC has to offer,  and there are a great many!

 

 

Avatar of Martin0

I also think it is fine the way it is.

Avatar of icystun

It's fine the way it is, but theoretically our team would be able to actually capture the opponents team's king first. Therefore it must be logical that we also checkmated first. Remember that blue is also in check himself, so he has to get out of the check, but is unable to do so...It is ambiguous in the particular example I showed. Also a two queen checkmate, is in fact very often the conclusion of a game, meaning team games usually last very short. Playing until the king is actually captured also means the games will be more competitive if teams are slightly skewed in terms of rating.

Avatar of RichardChen5064

yeah. I had a problem with this 2 days ago. Couldn't take a screenshot. somebody please fix sad.png

Avatar of Riptidejr

Your teammate could end up saving you. That's why it is waited til it is your turn until you are checkmated.

Avatar of chadnilsen
icystun wrote:

First yellow mated blue, then Green just played Qxg2 and it's mate, since I had no valid moves. However, there is a bad logic to this. Yellow had previously landed mate against blue, and actually made an unavoidable checkmate first, and would also execute a capture of the king first. I know it's supposed to be possible for the team to help out, but here it seems we mated first, but since I was in turn first, we lost, because the "empty moves" had to be played out. I would rather see a king capture to finish the game, then the first to mate actually wins....

I think this happened in my very first teams game.

Avatar of busymovie

Yeah how about instead of mate, the king has to actully be captured for it to count, so illegal moves wouldbe legal, but they would be really horrible moves.

Avatar of Skeftomilos

#18 It has been discussed, and the opinions were split.
King capture instead of checkmate rules discussion
This is not the only topic where it was discussed, but I can't find the other ones.