How to prevent obvious cheaters from getting into your group

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VirtualKnightJoakim

How to prevent obvious cheaters from getting into your group

"Open source recommendations, based on team feedback (Last updated 1/28/2020). Originally published in the ACTC club but posted here for this club's admin team to main and evolve this OP (post #1).

General strategy:

It is a good idea to only invite or accept players who have had minimum time on chess.com (say, 1,3 or 6 months). Many returning cheaters (or other trolls) are caught or banned early. Other new users stop being active and would time out if they joined your club and its matches.

What to look for:
1) A player who has a very high rating and mainly wins and extremely few losses/draws (and has played many games)
2) A player whoes rating keep increasing linearly, or jumps suddenly 400-600+ points, and who have played many games
3) Lots of short games involving very few opponents, one of which is always losing and another one winning (say fool's mate).

Below can raise some flags, but in themselves does not offer much evidence:
1) A player who does not have a title, but has 2300+ in online rating
2) A player who does not have a FIDE rating, but 2000+  in online rating
3) A player who is 2100+ and have 100+ concurrent online games (and no title or FIDE rating)
4) Discrepanicies between online ratings and other ratings (bullet/blitz/tactics)... when all ratings reflect many games played and not too many time out in fast games (which could be due to slow connections). An example would be a 800 points diffference with at least 100-150 games played.

None of this offer proof of cheating, but you can use it to determine whether to invite a new member. If you suspect cheating for someone who is already in your group, it may be best not to kick him/her out, but to file a support request with chess.com and let them determine if it is cheating or not.

From chess.com knowledge base:

How do I report someone I think is cheating?

  • If you have reason to believe someone is cheating, please report it here and include all relevant info (username, reason for suspicion, etc). We investigate all reports and keep them confidential. 
  • Please do not discuss your suspicions in the forums!

More chess.com resources on cheating:

https://support.chess.com/search?query=cheating

VirtualKnightJoakim

This post was made by legopiratesenior:

@Commander_Riker - just to be sure we're on the same page: nobody is advocating sending reports after losing a couple games. VKJ has stated a number of reasonable grounds for suspicion, and none of these suggest launching a report based on a couple of personal losses.

With experience, people become quite successful in correctly deciding whom to report. Taking myself for example (not to brag, but to protect the privacy of other cheat reporters): my most recent 42 reports resulted in 37 bans (including one titled player) -- that's about 88% success rate. Out of the 5 that did not get banned, one got a reprieve because his cheating happened up to about a year ago and then he stopped. Two did not get banned, despite stronger evidence than most of the 37 that got the boot (I know the reasons but cannot disclose them). Two remaining were highly suspicious, but not quite up to 99.99% confidence level that is needed for a ban -- but if they continue generating evidence at the current rate, they will get banned. I have also forwarded a number of reports on behalf of people who asked me for advice (and of those, which I decided had sufficient merit to be forwarded, all but one resulted in bans).

So, there is plenty that one can do to prevent cheating. Note that denying a group membership does not need to be supported by similar evidence (but it should not be justified by explicit accusations). I hope that denying engine users the satisfaction of gaining unearned respect may provide a significant damping factor.

This said, I have some more comments to VKJ's post:

"player whose rating keep increasing linearly" -- not necessarily. It is better to look for sudden and significant increase. Or for a linear-ish and significant increase in just one variant, with no gains made elsewhere. Big red flag. A recent example:

See that jump in the second half of 2014? About 600 point gain. Meanwhile, flat blitz results in the same time period, with plenty of games at about 1300 level. You see something like this, you're completely justified in keeping the guy out of the group. The guy above got banned soon after I passed the report on -- my decision here was done solely based on the rating charts + big rating discrepancy.

"Discrepanicies between online ratings" -- this needs a quantifier. If you see 800 points difference, with at least 100-150 games played in each chess variant, reporting a player is likely justified. With lower ranges, a bit more caution is needed until you get enough experience in weighting in other symptoms. Ideally, though, run analysis of the games (there are online sites that will do this for you). To get more advice, join the Cheating Forum and read the relevant threads. Get ChessAnalyse to evaluate games yourself (and buy it if you find it useful).

BTW, today in the morning, I reported a guy with < 1500 online rating and about 2200 blitz - a reversal of what one would normally consider suspicious.  Of course the guy was running an engine in blitz -- playing closer to Houdini in 3|0 games than Carlsen and Anand in their title matches...

eulers_knot

My personal take is that this issue is best handled by chess.com algorithms.

VirtualKnightJoakim

If you wish to vet members who apply to your club they are obviously live and have not (yet) been caught by chess.com for cheating. Also note that chess.com has a very high bar for banning members for cheating and only do so when they have 99.99+ % certainty.

Are you recommending just to let anybody into your club (including 1 day old new members) and wait and see if they later should be closed by chess.com for fair play violations?

Commando-Poppins

All the things mentioned in the original post are good. Time on the site is a big one. If someone's rated over 2000 I have a cheat detector check them out before letting them into the club. I also use gut instinct. It's rarely wrong, but of course it can be.

Kookaburrra

Time on site is important.  And after a while you get experience in knowing which players need checking before you let them in.   The harder thing is to watch players already within your club.  That’s much more difficult.  

primepawn

Not one member of https://www.chess.com/club/awesome-alchemy-of-international-printmakers has gotten banned for Fair play.   1.) make it clear that you are the groups study-guide.  2.) grumble about Fritz Pirates constantly.  2.) brag that you crush WomanFideMasters  (BTW - i needed advice from Kookaburrra to do it - me thinks she know something about chess. ) and 2400 elo FideInternationalMaleMasters with a rating of 1400 elo and you get snotty messages from support " Are you sure you are the one that is not cheating?"  I Can do 100% Computer moves (in the opening...)  my entire creed of play is lasting 18 moves v. Deep Fritz 8 (just try it yourself) FYI grin.pngid u ever get turned in for cheating by a Fritz Pirate for beating his Fritz. i have. lol. ask agastyagoldy   https://www.chess.com/live/game/1405164604?username=agastyagoldy  he accused me of being a front-loader  i will not lie,after this. he just won 17 games in a row. ie. other than me he only loses to other Fritz.   i am so afraid of getting targeted by Fritz i stopped playing live. - do not ask me these kind of questions, i get so bent out of shape. 

Kookaburrra

I don’t even know what you mean Prime Pawn.  I don’t crush anyone.  

primepawn

@kookaburrra : In the other Administrative room u informed me that int his type of mate one has "to get the opposing King in the same color corner as the Bishop used. " i was ignorant of this. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/182972990?tab=analysis  -  i was merely thanking you for this critical piece of information. Nothing to get bent out of shape for.  i do crush people. no matter what my elo rating i have been always 500 more Wins than loss.

Kookaburrra

Yes.  I remember that.  Thanks for reminding me.  Please I helped you with some chess theory.   

Jane_Cummings

I could care less for these cheaters cause eventually they get found out and shamed. Why would anyone normal person bother unless of course they can't be trusted to keep their word that they gave when they joined the site to play fairly without assistance. I put this behaviour down to immaturity. Sad for them!  

Brian-E
VirtualKnightJoakim schreef:

If you wish to vet members who apply to your club they are obviously live and have not (yet) been caught by chess.com for cheating. Also note that chess.com has a very high bar for banning members for cheating and only do so when they have 99.99+ % certainty.

Are you recommending just to let anybody into your club (including 1 day old new members) and wait and see if they later should be closed by chess.com for fair play violations?

This wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to come back here.

 

I think it is never appropriate for club admins to refuse a member or remove them simply on the basis that we suspect cheating. As others also indicate above, that is not our role. Waiting until the applicant has a proven record of playing here on the site is reasonable (so that, among other considerations, the site's cheating detection team has had the chance to weed out cheating players who have just joined the site), but active suspicions of cheating should be handled only by the site's detection team. Report suspicious cases to the site, but then leave the site to handle them, and while the account is still open the player should be treated exactly like any other.

gambit-man
Brian-E wrote:
VirtualKnightJoakim schreef:

If you wish to vet members who apply to your club they are obviously live and have not (yet) been caught by chess.com for cheating. Also note that chess.com has a very high bar for banning members for cheating and only do so when they have 99.99+ % certainty.

Are you recommending just to let anybody into your club (including 1 day old new members) and wait and see if they later should be closed by chess.com for fair play violations?

This wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to come back here.

 

I think it is never appropriate for club admins to refuse a member or remove them simply on the basis that we suspect cheating. As others also indicate above, that is not our role. Waiting until the applicant has a proven record of playing here on the site is reasonable (so that, among other considerations, the site's cheating detection team has had the chance to weed out cheating players who have just joined the site), but active suspicions of cheating should be handled only by the site's detection team. Report suspicious cases to the site, but then leave the site to handle them, and while the account is still open the player should be treated exactly like any other.

a few years ago there was a guy removed from Team Scotland when he had developed a sudden onset of genius. @runnerbean had been trundling along below 1600 for some time then wiped the floor with everybody in an internal tournament. Upon checking his games it was very clear he was using an engine and making little attempt to hide it. The admins of the day were in agreement we should remove him and report to staff.

We ran the risk of him defaulting on his games in play with us, but the likelihood of him being caught cheating was also high. He later joined Team Spain, and his rating soon leapt to near-2200 before he was finally caught 2 years later. Admins of the day had no regrets whatsoever in the actions we took...

MGleason

Admins have the right to exclude members for any reason or no reason.  While public accusations are not permitted, if you think someone might be cheating, you have the right to remove them from your club, or even simply choose not to invite them.  Club admins can choose their own criteria for what they determine to be too suspicious, or for other requirements.  Requiring a certain amount of time on the site is an obvious one that keeps out not just cheaters but also trolls and people who will lose interest and abandon the site (and their team match games) after a couple weeks.

And I don't think that anyone would say it's a good idea to invite a member with a daily rating of 2200 and a perfect record of 100 wins without even a draw against decent-quality opposition if they are struggling to get above 800 in blitz after a large number of games.  It is possible that that person could be an old correspondence player who used to be quite strong and can still perform in daily, but due to age and disabilities can no longer cope with faster time controls, but most of the time there's another explanation.

There's also the fact that different clubs fulfil different roles.  Some compete with other clubs in team matches and vote chess.  Some play internal tournaments.  In both cases, a cheater is a problem.  But other clubs are non-competitive discussion groups, and there a cheater hurts nothing except that their content will vanish when they get banned.

Brian-E

Always report suspicions to the site.

If the site staff judge that the player has not (so far) displayed decisive evidence of cheating, then yes, we are entitled to over-rule that judgment and remove the player from our groups, but I for one take a very dim view of such an attitude.

You can always find plenty of examples of players whose accounts were finally closed after a long period of suspicion. You can also find a smaller number of examples of players who have been suspected and reported for cheating but for whose accounts are still open years later because the site experts who really know what they are doing and are responsible for determining whether someone has demonstrably cheated, did not come to that conclusion.

 

We run our teams as we see fit. But I for one refuse to override the site's decisions on cheating detection. And all players are innocent unless and until determined otherwise.

gambit-man

@runnerbean was an exception rather than a rule, his level of cheating really was very clear. i don't recall us doing the same with others we suspected of cheating

Brian-E
gambit-man schreef:

@runnerbean was an exception rather than a rule, his level of cheating really was very clear. i don't recall us doing the same with others we suspected of cheating

That's good to know.

If that single exception occurred a few years ago as you say, and the evidence really was overwhelming long before the site took action, perhaps it can be explained by the fact that great advances have been made in the field in the last few years.

 

I apologize for discussing cheating and its detection somewhere other than the Cheating Forum. I know we're not supposed to. But given that this controversial thread has been posted here, I do think a push-back is needed. We don't want club admins en masse to start taking over the very difficult task of detecting cheating which really needs to be left to experts. I am also well aware, @gambit-man, that you yourself are extremely knowledgeable in the field. I am not, and I don't believe many club admins are.

gambit-man
Brian-E wrote:

I apologize for discussing cheating and its detection somewhere other than the Cheating Forum. I know we're not supposed to. 

Don't think an apology is needed, discussion about cheating IS allowed within private clubs, so long as admins allow it. This topic IS about obvious cheats and posted by one of the group admins, so i don't think we've veered off topic, at least not too far.

@Runnerbean was an existing member who turned bad, rather than being admitted to the group as an obvious cheat...

VirtualKnightJoakim

You should never accuse anyone of cheating in any club. Exchange of detailed information related to chess.com cheat detection should only be discussed in the Cheater's Forum as to not help anyone who may wish to cheat and avoid detection.

primepawn

After the Company i had a rocking career going on folded after the big Navy Contract i was a (ahem) Kelly Girl"; i got hired by three companies, Most Kelly girls r college girls on drugs. i had a girl tell me " i'm just a temp, i have no job pride. " Bottom Line :  Cheaters are temps with no job pride ! Bye Bye.