Just had the JWs round

And for once I talked to them - well one of them - the other just stood and watched.

They were leading on 'why does god allow suffering', although when I asked them which branch of theodicy they adhered to - the free will defence, for example - they didn't seem to follow me.

But they had a little pamphlet, which apparently had an answer to all my questions, which was nice. And would I like to take it and read it? No thanks.

So he found me the page where the rebellious student (Satan) was being allowed by the teacher (God) to write on the blackboard so that everybody could see how wrong he was - rather than just sending him out of the room, when the question may remain in doubt.

I observed that rather than letting Satan write on the blackboard, God appeared to have let Satan murder half the class, while He wandered off to the the staffroom for 6000 years for a cup of tea and a cigarette.

I mean, how many more wars and diseases before this point is made?

Anyway, I am quite pleased with the whole experience. I got in a good point about if there were a God he would surely, however small his influence, be bringing the sects back together, rather than driving them all further apart.

And I observed that persuading people to refuse transfusions when they need them is morally similar to killing them in cold blood - grievously and irredeemably evil. The JW said he wasn't trying to persuade anyone. I'm not convinced that was entirely true.

I tried to involve the other JW a bit in the conversation because he would have found it hard to get a word in edgeways. But he just agreed with his mate, albeit not in a way that can be easily articulated.

Anyway it was most agreeable. I hope they come back soon.

Twelve years ago I was kinda shocked, when I was living in Japan, I answered a knock on my door and found two American JW's outside my door. It's tough to get away from those guys!

I think it's great that he said he wasn't trying to persuade anyone. That is the whole point of the door to door missionary work. You should have asked him if he gets all dressed up for repeated abuse for a good time.

Although I must say that I am with Anda on this one. I have a soft spot in for JW's and Mormons because at least they care that I am headed to eternal damnation. I bet they feel horrible for you that such a smart man is going to get the rack while they finally get to watch T.V.

Well the JW's don't actually believe that. They think you are going to the grave, that only 144,000 are going to heaven, and that they are going to live in paradise on earth (like the garden east of Eden?).

 Thanks for setting me straight azrad, but now I can no longer think anything positive about the JW's. It didn't piss me off when they bugged me before because I thought they had my best interests at heart. If I am just going to go to the grave now I don't understand why they work so hard. Probably so they can go to heaven. Selfish jerks.

Well maybe I should rephrase it, they think a majority of people will die forever (go to the grave), than believers (JW's church members) will live in a kind of perfect earth that will be remade or fixed?, and that the elite believers (numbering 144,000) will go to a more or less conventional heaven.

They also believe lots of other "weird" stuff, like that Satan lived in heaven until sometime around 1917? (give or take a few years I can't remember) and that is when the war in heaven started (1/3rd cast out and all that stuff). They cite the book of Job for evidence of this (since in the book of Job, Satan and God are chilling out in heaven, while messing with Job).

 I actually thought that number was around 5400, but either way all the places in heaven will be taken up by now, so I wonder why they still walk around annoying people even though they've missed the boat.

Had the JW's around once about 10 to 20 years ago and kept the little "creation book" that they gave me.  Sometimes I find the book amusing and at other times depressing.  On the point of creation they are pretty much in lock step with other fundamentalists christians despite the fact that most christians that I know of consider JW a hell bound cult.