Some steps to do urgently, or 4p chess will really die...

Very abruptly said, 4p chess is dying. There are MUCH LESS games; Antichess/Giveaway became very seldom played, Old Standard games that I try to launch from time to time are not seen nor joined by hardly anyone, high rated games became scarce...

I believe that the main problem is about ergonomics, arborescence organisation and presentation.

I reckon it was a huge mistake to put 4p into one mixed mess with other chess variants. It should've stayed a separate space.

Many players haven't seen that there are different 4p rooms like 

https://www.chess.com/variants/4p-old-standard

https://www.chess.com/variants/4p-giveaway

etc.

Many didn't understand that with the back arrow you can reach https://www.chess.com/variants and that then different subspaces concern 4p chess (whereas many do not!).

Most players do not understand that all 4p games could be visible by them in https://www.chess.com/variants/lobby, and they didn't realise that they should configure themselves this space in order to be able to see for instance Old Standard and Giveaway (Antichess) games.

As logical and inevitable consequence, there are MUCH LESS games now. Before the merge to get a 2400-2500 FFA was not a big deal, now sometimes you have to wait for 1 hour and more (!). 

I think those who created the new site structure overestimated the ability of users and underestimated their laziness. I am sure that stats prove that there are much less games, especially as for some formats and levels.

I believe that should be urgently re-thought about. With a separate 4p chess space, where all formats and variants OF 4P CHESS are included, with no confusion and no other formats (2p, 960, fog of war, whatever...). And with a unique lobby put SEPARATELY from sub-rooms, where people like previously see all open games by default (but can REMOVE then the games they are not interested in, either by format or timing or rating level).

I completely agree. The site is a mess extremely hard to navigate with lobbies overridden with obscure variants (easily hiding any "Old Standard"), a disgusting amount of irrelevant leaderboards, and offers little to no competition at any decent level at any time as a result. It's virtually impossible even to get something as simple as a 2000+ bullet which was sub-par "high-level" bullet in the day and anything 2500+ rapid ffa can honestly be counted as dead. I don't know a clearer message the 4pc community can speak with their response. 

Yeah

I could not agree more.

It doesn't make sense to me to have different lobbies for all the different 4p variants. One lobby will do just fine. (Yes, I am aware that there is a 4p lobby, but it doesn't seem to include any 4 player variants, which is a big cut)

4 player variants, individually or as a whole cannot survive their separation from each other.

jirw34ù

Yes, I completely agree. It’s mixed with all the other variants.

I mean, 4pc was going okay before the merge, before it, with the lots of server restarts? 4pc players slowly lowered, then they did the merge, which did the WORST possible "help" to 4pc, which lowered good players and players who know how to play it by 40-60%. now some of the games take like 15mins minimum to start, unless 4 players who know how to play (at least 2) arrange a game. 4pc is basically ruined, so I agree to this forum.

I agree the interface is not as simple as the previous one to navigate. Also, I think there is less the feeling of a community with everyone more spread accros the differents layers of the site with the multiple choices. Tough, I don't think it's the only reason for the diminution of players. Many players are probably fustrated to have spend so much time to learn the old setup and now they need to learn the new Omatamix setup. It's a combination of many things happening at the same time. Resistance to change is always a big thing in life.

 It's still really soon to say "4p chess will really die". People always need time to adapt and accept the changes. Many old players are probably not even aware yet of the modifications (!).

Personally, I like the changes that have been made. The new Omatamix setup is easier to play with blue/green in teams. You don't feel you have to survive the opening as much with blue/green as in the past. The self-partner team is also great. Changes involve to get out of your confort zone. The game as itself is evolving in the right direction, but ultimately the players are the one deciding if they like it or not. I can't talk much about FFA as I'm not a big fan of shuffling pieces forever. 

Personnaly, I could easily live without any special variant other than team (and self-partner team) and let say FFA for people who like it. To highlight the main variants and put the others more difficult to see could help to have a cleaner interface. Basically, keeping the variants, but less obvious than the main ones to select.

I still want to thanks the developpers. A lot of job have been done. You know, everybody can help to spread the word to make the game more popular. It's possible to talk to your opponents or people around you about 4pc. Also, if you want to help, you can volonteer to help develop the interface...

I am 1000% agree. Finish the weekend afternoons of game, nare, there are some weekend afternoon where i just play 2/3 games, and with bot on top of that, so i am 1000000% agree. 

I totally agree with you, 4pc needs to look more unique, more than other variants (except bughouse which is a 4 player teams version of crazyhouse, that I also want to be on 4pc server), because the fact that 4 players play at the same board, changes much more than almost any 2pc variant out there, making it mixed just make it harder to find and play 4pc, it was much more easy with separate servers, I do like the merge but not the 4pc server removal.

Thats why you dont see many 4pc games around after the removal of 4pc server.

"But Hitsar what about 4pc self-partner?"

Put it on 4pc server, even if it doesnt include 4 players, its still 4 different "fake-players" on the board that are controlled by 2, there could also have 1v2 teams, where the 1 play both

fake-players of the team against the other team.

here's my ideas that I think admins will be more likely to accept, as it does not include completely reversing the merge. 

#1:  Add Old Standard in the standard 4pc section. This in my mind solves the problem of Old Standard being all mixed up and jumbled with all the other variants.

#2: Create a separate lobby for 4pc. By this I don't mean like, ooh go find 4pc and click on it and it will take you to a new URL. I mean, in the general variants, make it so that there is a General Lobby (in which you can not find any 4PC), and  a 4PC Lobby, and you will get all 4pc games in this lobby (including variants). Essentially just taking the Featured 4PC and taking it into a totally separate lobby, and then admins can either make it so you can still go to the 4pc URL if you just want standard, or admins could make it so that you can not, but you can separate standard from other variants. This fixes the problem of 4pc being all jumbled and mixed up with the other variants, and could potentially draw more attention to 4pc for players that have never played the variant. 

#3: MAKE SOLO SEPERATE!!!!!!: Why on earth did you make it a regulation for all high rated games to be solo???????? This is, as far as I can tell, the main reason high rated games are so rare now. My suggestion is to make it so it is an option, not a regulation, but maybe, if you want, make it so that the default is solo for whatever reason it is that you made it a regulation. Also, keep it so that FFA and solo are the same rating? Not sure about this but maybe. Do this and I can pretty much guarantee you that more high rated games go on, because like @radon and probably many other have said, its just not worth it for high rated players to play in 2300+ or whatever games, because if they win, they get like +6, but if they get second, they get like -20 or whatever please don't take these rating changes seriously, i dont play any high rated games but the rating changes are probably less than this, just please  DONT JUMP ON ME ABOUT THIS MY POINT IS THAT THEY WILL LOSE MORE THAN THEY GAIN. This would, hopefully, encourage more high rated games. 

well, there you have it, hopefully admins agree to these changes, perhaps tweaking them slightly IDC but I hope at least the problems players have with the merge will be addressed in some way.

takes talent to really skrew up 4pc in one major update smh. Literally 90% of the updates have just been pure dog water... completely agree with the comments and now its in the admin's hands to get this sorted out. Oh and the admins could learn a thing or two about all this. Only time will tell where 4pc goes at this point. 

I definitely believe that ALL 4p chess should be separate from other chess variants. It is too specific. And I fail to see the marketing interest for mixing 4p and 2p variants, it's 2 worlds.

I know that there were reasons (that Hest explained) for having all these changes in the same time. And it won't be reverted certainly.

My side, I do not like the new setup, but I do not protest BECAUSE ONE MAY STILL LAUNCH OLD STANDARD GAMES. The problem is that when you do, no other players join (as they need for that either to happen to be in the SAME TIME in the same Old Standard room, or to have activated "all variants" in the main Lobby what most players don't do.

Also, I do not care much about the changes in timing and don't complain.

And I do not follow neither those who protest against the merge FFA/Solo.

But the fact that currently the overall 4p chess spatial organisation, mixing with very different 2p variants, division between several rooms and lobbies, create a lot of confusion and mess, really makes me feel sad. Because we had something great and we lost it.

It's the random disconnects that are the biggest issue for me

imagine blaming me for the fact that no one will listen or even discuss my brilliant ideas... prehaps i will create a new forum and post it there so ppl will actually notice it lol

I agree with you

uh ok give me one example then 

Totally agree with the arguments in this thread I'm not used to waiting this long for 4p games and 4P GIveaway/Antichess Bullet now at least has two active players but we still need 18 to get a leaderboard. Used to be that many of us active in bullet 4p antichess games in any 24 hour period. 

my anology lol 

cool i was trying to get u used to common sense