Wow nice
What do we know about chaturanga strategy?
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There should probably be some sort of tactical advice as well.
More often than not, games are decided by tactics.
bruh
In the olden chess manul it was written that you can moves your pawn 1 step
I now your right, but in olden chess that you can your oppents king till it not capture
so think about it
plus you can move your bishop over your pawns
but a tinsy problem that bishop can move 3 steps
thanks warm regards
Nirvaan1608
Thank you @nescitus, I stick this topic to the forum's top.
1. Alfie are late game units and should be coordinated with the Ferz and Queen.
I feel like it is quite close to shogi as you want to build your structure and form the battle field before attacking as the pieces move quite slowly. I haven't looked at it enough yet but it seems like you build fortifications and then look for weaknesses. Vs. #518 fischer random where the aggression starts immediately by jumping pawns... the old school solution to time control boredom? Maybe position 518 should start a rank further up... calling it
chaturanga XL.
The Alfil remind of the elephants in Chinese chess (xiangqi). As a beginner you easily overlook their moves.
half-decent example of attacking on squares of one's own color: https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/10420631/66/1
You made good use of your fers!
Opening arrangements: https://www.chess.com/blog/kinglybingly/shatranj-tabbiyat
a puzzle from 1360 https://schachblaetter.de/mansube-2/10-10-2020/ (black to move and win)
Interesting discussion of piece values: https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/chaturanga-piece-values
nescitus wrote:
This thread is intended to find some ideas how to play chaturanga. This game has no manuals, at least I did not manage to find much information in the net, so the best I can do is to write down some ideas and hypotheses, and let the stronger players to correct them.
Note: square coordinates are for the older setup, with the king on e1; this will be fixed soon, but remember that in the meantime.
0) Take a knight with anything else than a rook
Perhaps later on I'll create some tips for beginners as well, but this one alone is worth at least 200 rating points. Relative values of pawn, alfil and ferz may be a subject to discussion, but getting them wrong will lose you an equvalent of a pawn. Meanwhile, all of them are much weaker than a knight. Alfil is not a bishop, ferz is not a queen, knight is a strong piece.
1) Developement is mainly about connecting rooks
Two connected rooks on an uncontested open file seem like almost-winning positional advantage, sometimes worth sacrificing some material for (https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/10559786). To reach this goal, or to prevent opponent from doing so, you need to connect rooks before position opens up. One simple way of reaching this goal is to move several pawns to the 3rd rank, and playing a rook to the 2nd rank, alfils staying on their initial squares. The other is what I call "flat developement" - knights on e2 and d2, ferz on c2, king of f2.
2) Pawns should move together and you should not obstruct their movement
In chaturanga pawns cannot move two squares. This means that a pawn on the 5th rank should be treated as semi-isolated, even if it has neighbours on the adjacent files. I have captured many such pawns. Also playing Alfil to d3/e3 when there is a pawn on d2/e2 is a positional mistake. Knight before pawn might be situationally good, especially if it can reach a good square afterwards, but I also tend to avoid that. In general "pieces behind pawns" works evn better than in normal chess.
3) Pawns should capture towards the center
Old Arabic theoreticians assigned different values to pawns, depending on their file, and treated central pawns as much more valuable. The corollary to this rule is that central pawns ought to be defended by other pawns. Strong c4/d4/e4/f4 white pawns and c5/d5/e5/f5 black pawns are especially important, and it is good to defend them twice.
4) You start with a color weakness and a color strength
This is indicated by the color of Your ferz. At the beginning, this piece is especially useful to defend squares not covered by pawns. It might be wise to place pawns on the color different than your ferz. Also, nothing short of placing a pawn there can prevent a f4-f5 break for white or f5-f4 break for black, due to possible alfil/ferz support.
Color weakness often calls for a ferz raid.
Color of promoted ferz is also important in the endgame. It is better to promote ferz of the color you don't have.
5) The king is a strong piece
Players stronger than me often manage to form an impenetrable defensive position with just a king, a ferz, two pawns and some situational support. Side with material advantage often can use king as an attacking piece, more often than in chess.
Since king is strong, it is not necessary to create a position ressembling a castle from normal chess, at least not right in the opening. A king on the 2nd rank, sheltered by pawns and defending them, is good enough. Early artificial castling just loses time, and is prone to "castling into attack" (https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/10606305)
6) g3/b3 pawns are important defenders
They immobilize enemy alfils after their first move. They are probably at least as valuable as these alfils, and sacrificing an alfil for them requires much finer positional judgement than I have. They control important squares in extended center. They are either defended or unattackable by enemy pieces, because alfils cannot reach them.
7) Important squares should be defended by a pawn, a ferz or an alfil
Most of my losses were caused by failing to follow this principle. Strong opponents used such squares for their knights. So...
8) Please care for knight outposts
Outpost in context of chaturanga is a square safe from attacks by enemy pawns, ferzes and alfils (that is, of by all the pieces weaker than the knight), preferably defended by a pawn or by a weak piece. Also, it is possible to have an outpost square safe for the time being, if enemy ferz would have to make several moves to attack a knight or if it is busy elsewhere.
Thanks for the advice.
The site could have analysis, opening book, etc. for chaturanga. There are versions of stockfish that can handle it fine (among other things).
Murray's history book on chess has a long section on the strategies, openings, and tactics from old (arabic) books on how to play it, so studying that would put you on top of the chaturanga world I imagine.
The game seems to be a lot more about endgames, and the fact that winning all the pieces (bearing the king) or stalemating the opponent are wins, changes things a lot. Rooks and knights are kind of, must-keep, amazingly dominant pieces. The elephant (alfil) and the ferz (weak, original version of the "queen") you have to think a lot about their color and try to find a favorable trade/use for them.
Each alfili only has certain squares on the board, so you need to memorize them basically.
Then it's just a matter of pawn breaks and rook/knight endgames mostly. Alfil endgames can be super weird (see murray's book).
Chaturanga shatranj is not a Variant, is the original chess from 800 AD.
I read somewhere that the elephants could also move 1 space forward, like the silver generals in Shogi.
Ya, but in chtrnga they can only move 2 sqs
The simplicity of Chaturanga makes it more entertaining than, say, Gothic chess. At least for me. I guess I like simple. I also love the rules: baring the opponent's king is a win, so is stalemating the opponent. Entirely logical, unlike Western chess.
This thread is intended to find some ideas how to play chaturanga. This game has no manuals, at least I did not manage to find much information in the net, so the best I can do is to write down some ideas and hypotheses, and let the stronger players to correct them.
Note: square coordinates are for the older setup, with the king on e1; this will be fixed soon, but remember that in the meantime.
0) Take a knight with anything else than a rook
Perhaps later on I'll create some tips for beginners as well, but this one alone is worth at least 200 rating points. Relative values of pawn, alfil and ferz may be a subject to discussion, but getting them wrong will lose you an equvalent of a pawn. Meanwhile, all of them are much weaker than a knight. Alfil is not a bishop, ferz is not a queen, knight is a strong piece.
1) Developement is mainly about connecting rooks
Two connected rooks on an uncontested open file seem like almost-winning positional advantage, sometimes worth sacrificing some material for (https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/10559786). To reach this goal, or to prevent opponent from doing so, you need to connect rooks before position opens up. One simple way of reaching this goal is to move several pawns to the 3rd rank, and playing a rook to the 2nd rank, alfils staying on their initial squares. The other is what I call "flat developement" - knights on e2 and d2, ferz on c2, king of f2.
2) Pawns should move together and you should not obstruct their movement
In chaturanga pawns cannot move two squares. This means that a pawn on the 5th rank should be treated as semi-isolated, even if it has neighbours on the adjacent files. I have captured many such pawns. Also playing Alfil to d3/e3 when there is a pawn on d2/e2 is a positional mistake. Knight before pawn might be situationally good, especially if it can reach a good square afterwards, but I also tend to avoid that. In general "pieces behind pawns" works evn better than in normal chess.
3) Pawns should capture towards the center
Old Arabic theoreticians assigned different values to pawns, depending on their file, and treated central pawns as much more valuable. The corollary to this rule is that central pawns ought to be defended by other pawns. Strong c4/d4/e4/f4 white pawns and c5/d5/e5/f5 black pawns are especially important, and it is good to defend them twice.
4) You start with a color weakness and a color strength
This is indicated by the color of Your ferz. At the beginning, this piece is especially useful to defend squares not covered by pawns. It might be wise to place pawns on the color different than your ferz. Also, nothing short of placing a pawn there can prevent a f4-f5 break for white or f5-f4 break for black, due to possible alfil/ferz support.
Color weakness often calls for a ferz raid.
Color of promoted ferz is also important in the endgame. It is better to promote ferz of the color you don't have.
5) The king is a strong piece
Players stronger than me often manage to form an impenetrable defensive position with just a king, a ferz, two pawns and some situational support. Side with material advantage often can use king as an attacking piece, more often than in chess.
Since king is strong, it is not necessary to create a position ressembling a castle from normal chess, at least not right in the opening. A king on the 2nd rank, sheltered by pawns and defending them, is good enough. Early artificial castling just loses time, and is prone to "castling into attack" (https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/10606305)
6) g3/b3 pawns are important defenders
They immobilize enemy alfils after their first move. They are probably at least as valuable as these alfils, and sacrificing an alfil for them requires much finer positional judgement than I have. They control important squares in extended center. They are either defended or unattackable by enemy pieces, because alfils cannot reach them.
7) Important squares should be defended by a pawn, a ferz or an alfil
Most of my losses were caused by failing to follow this principle. Strong opponents used such squares for their knights. So...
8) Please care for knight outposts
Outpost in context of chaturanga is a square safe from attacks by enemy pawns, ferzes and alfils (that is, of by all the pieces weaker than the knight), preferably defended by a pawn or by a weak piece. Also, it is possible to have an outpost square safe for the time being, if enemy ferz would have to make several moves to attack a knight or if it is busy elsewhere.