MGT88 wrote:
Congrats! An incredible acquisition that couldn’t go to a more deserving owner.
Thank you!
At Long Last, An Original Tal Set
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Sep 6, 2021
0
#43
Eyechess wrote:
This set is truly exceptional. For some reason, I was not surprised to hear it is heavily weighted. This show the quality difference of the sets they made for the masses versus those made for the more elite. This is very nice.
Thanks, Ron!
Sep 6, 2021
0
#44
stevenashs20mworkout wrote:
Beautiful set!! Congrats on the find, and thanks for sharing pics!
You're very welcome!
cgrau wrote:
Bamboo58 wrote:
Cgrau, Thank you very much for posting. Beautiful set. Nice to see you back here. Please continue to post interesting sets from time to time.
You're welcome. I expect to periodically post, perhaps to blog.
Look forward to your blogs. I imagine the, to have new, hi-res photos of your sets along with their historical significance just as you did here.
Sep 6, 2021
0
#46
chessroboto wrote:
cgrau wrote:
Bamboo58 wrote:
Cgrau, Thank you very much for posting. Beautiful set. Nice to see you back here. Please continue to post interesting sets from time to time.
You're welcome. I expect to periodically post, perhaps to blog.
Look forward to your blogs. I imagine the, to have new, hi-res photos of your sets along with their historical significance just as you did here.
My aim would be to focus on the design and history of Soviet chess pieces, looking at them in their socio-historical context and in relation to the state policy of Political Chess and developments in Soviet artistic theory.
Chuck,
On this site, you are the only user I follow.
And always remember, your quoting your wife " buy the shoes!"
Glad you're back posting on here.
Glad you didn't include pictures of that lame beer you drink!
cgrau wrote:
chessroboto wrote:
cgrau wrote:
Bamboo58 wrote:
Cgrau, Thank you very much for posting. Beautiful set. Nice to see you back here. Please continue to post interesting sets from time to time.
You're welcome. I expect to periodically post, perhaps to blog.
Look forward to your blogs. I imagine the, to have new, hi-res photos of your sets along with their historical significance just as you did here.
My aim would be to focus on the design and history of Soviet chess pieces, looking at them in their socio-historical context and in relation to the state policy of Political Chess and developments in Soviet artistic theory.
History lessons of chess sets is always welcome among enthusiasts.
cgrau wrote:
... This 1962 depiction of the design is the one that Phil Pajakowski and I collaborated with NOJ to reproduce back in 2016. ...
Have you contacted NOJ with new PICs and measurements of the original pieces to update their design?
Comparing the original to their take, it seems they would only have to get rid of the rise they put between the base and column of some of their pieces to be visually in line with the originals.
Sep 9, 2021
0
#50
Wes350 wrote:
cgrau wrote:
... This 1962 depiction of the design is the one that Phil Pajakowski and I collaborated with NOJ to reproduce back in 2016. ...
Have you contacted NOJ with new PICs and measurements of the original pieces to update their design?
Comparing the original to their take, it seems they would only have to get rid of the rise they put between the base and column of some of their pieces to be visually in line with the originals.
Wes, As a matter of fact, I have forwarded photos of this original to NOJ for whatever use they deem appropriate. I think there is a good chance that you're comparing apples and oranges here, though, in the form of two slightly different versions of the set. I believe mine is the version used in the 1959 USSR Championship held in Tbilisi, Georgia SSR, and shown in the Petrosian photo posted above. NOJ reproduced the version used in the 1962 USSR Championship held in Yerevan, Armenia SSR, and shown in the photo of Tal about to play his 33rd move against Krogius in the 11th round of that tournament. When we blew up shots of the pieces in the '62 photo, we saw what we considered reasonable evidence of the "rise" I believe you are referring to. This is one of our worksheets.
Sep 9, 2021
0
#51
Many6Packs wrote:
Chuck,
On this site, you are the only user I follow.
And always remember, your quoting your wife " buy the shoes!"
Glad you're back posting on here.
Glad you didn't include pictures of that lame beer you drink!
LOL. There's much to like about German Helles and Pils and Polish lagers. The over-hopped swill that is so popular here isn't fit for embalming let alone human consumption.
The knight of the original Tal set is the star of the show. Now, we see all reproductions got it wrong.
cgrau wrote:
Wes, As a matter of fact, I have forwarded photos of this original to NOJ for whatever use they deem appropriate. I think there is a good chance that you're comparing apples and oranges here, though, in the form of two slightly different versions of the set. I believe mine is the version used in the 1959 USSR Championship held in Tbilisi, Georgia SSR, and shown in the Petrosian photo posted above. NOJ reproduced the version used in the 1962 USSR Championship held in Yerevan, Armenia SSR, and shown in the photo of Tal about to play his 33rd move against Krogius in the 11th round of that tournament. When we blew up shots of the pieces in the '62 photo, we saw what we considered reasonable evidence of the "rise" I believe you are referring to. This is one of our worksheets.
While that is a possible interpretation given the photos that were initially used:
I believe that it is entirely an effect /illusion due to the way the 'glare' in the photo reflects off of the pieces. Especially the carving line where the stem meets the base.
I believe you or someone else on the facebook groups did post pics several years ago of what was an original 62ish set and it showed no 'rise' when better pics were taken.
NOT my set! NOT my Pics! I just saved them to my computer for reference:
IMHO it is more of what I would call a carving line, than an actual rise.
Unless these pics are found to be inauthentic; I believe that given that all the modern pics taken of original TAL sets, and even pics of Tal precursor sets, show no 'rise'. I believe that the 'rise' seen in the classic pics is a glare artifact of the way the black and white Iconic TAL photo came out.
That being said; the pics I showed were something I saved from the internet - so if proven to be inauthentic, and better pics of a 62' set surface, I could still be wrong.
Sep 10, 2021
0
#54
SpanishStallion wrote:
The knight of the original Tal set is the star of the show. Now, we see all reproductions got it wrong.
Keep in mind that the original in the OP is a particular version of the design, that used in the 1959 USSR Championship. There were others. The profile of the NOJ knight is a better fit to the knight profile in the '62 Tal photo than the profile of my original knights.
Sep 10, 2021
0
#55
Wes350 wrote:
cgrau wrote:
Wes, As a matter of fact, I have forwarded photos of this original to NOJ for whatever use they deem appropriate. I think there is a good chance that you're comparing apples and oranges here, though, in the form of two slightly different versions of the set. I believe mine is the version used in the 1959 USSR Championship held in Tbilisi, Georgia SSR, and shown in the Petrosian photo posted above. NOJ reproduced the version used in the 1962 USSR Championship held in Yerevan, Armenia SSR, and shown in the photo of Tal about to play his 33rd move against Krogius in the 11th round of that tournament. When we blew up shots of the pieces in the '62 photo, we saw what we considered reasonable evidence of the "rise" I believe you are referring to. This is one of our worksheets.
While that is a possible interpretation given the photos that were initially used:
I believe that it is entirely an effect /illusion due to the way the 'glare' in the photo reflects off of the pieces. Especially the carving line where the stem meets the base.
I believe you or someone else on the facebook groups did post pics several years ago of what was an original 62ish set and it showed no 'rise' when better pics were taken.
NOT my set! NOT my Pics! I just saved them to my computer for reference:
IMHO it is more of what I would call a carving line, than an actual rise.
Unless these pics are found to be inauthentic; I believe that given that all the modern pics taken of original TAL sets, and even pics of Tal precursor sets, show no 'rise'. I believe that the 'rise' seen in the classic pics is a glare artifact of the way the black and white Iconic TAL photo came out.
That being said; the pics I showed were something I saved from the internet - so if proven to be inauthentic, and better pics of a 62' set surface, I could still be wrong.
I appreciate your views and your points are well taken. I nevertheless remain comfortable with our interpretation of the glare. Please feel free to take the matter up with Gregor Novak at NOJ. There is contact information on the NOJ website.
I am quite familiar with the photos you posted. The burden of proof as to the authenticity of the set--as to whether it is an original, and if it is, whether it is a 1962 version original, rests with whomever contends they are an original. In the five years these photos have floated around the internet, no one has ever provided any data supporting their authenticity or provenance. Quite recently, a very reputable dealer of vintage Soviet and Tsarist sets from Ukraine told me that he is convinced that the set depicted in those photos is not an original. To me, the profile of the knights in that set don't match up well with the photographs of the '62 set, or any other version. They nevertheless spawned a number of reproductions replicating its serpentine look.
cgrau wrote:
I appreciate your views and your points are well taken. I nevertheless remain comfortable with our interpretation of the glare. Please feel free to take the matter up with Gregor Novak at NOJ. There is contact information on the NOJ website.
I am quite familiar with the photos you posted. The burden of proof as to the authenticity of the set--as to whether it is an original, and if it is, whether it is a 1962 version original, rests with whomever contends they are an original. In the five years these photos have floated around the internet, no one has ever provided any data supporting their authenticity or provenance. Quite recently, a very reputable dealer of vintage Soviet and Tsarist sets from Ukraine told me that he is convinced that the set depicted in those photos is not an original. To me, the profile of the knights in that set don't match up well with the photographs of the '62 set, or any other version. They nevertheless spawned a number of reproductions replicating its serpentine look.
You are correct, without additional PICs the set is suspect - which is why I put the big caveat in my post...
What is rather interesting is that outside of the NOJ reproduction, the person who might have made that other set is missing out on some hard cash: It is the best looking of all the non-NOJ TAL sets! They would have sold tons of copies...
I have to be honest...I thought you already owned this set,but am happy you got one.Your previous posts are a significant reason why I got the NOJ Tal set.
Both "you" and the set are "Classics"!
Best of luck
Many thanks, MT!