Can you un-confuse me over sets for sale from India that are advertised as rosewood or sheesham?

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Avatar of KUDZU9

I've been looking at buying a set which comes in a couple of variations. The white pieces are boxwood, and the dark pieces are available in ebony, rosewood, bud rosewood, or sheesham. I was under the impression that these woods are banned from export/import, except for ebony.  While I know there is a lot of confusion with naming practices, and that some of this is happening intentionally for various reasons, I can't figure out what is going on. If I buy one of the rosewood or sheesham sets, am I violating endangered species laws? Or are the woods being used permitted species that are actually not what we historically have thought of as these woods? Finally, if it's ok to purchase these, why would the "rosewood" command a significantly higher premium over "sheesham" as they seem to me to have pretty similar appearance and physical characteristics?

Avatar of EfimLG47

I am not an expert on timbers, but my understanding is the following. The term rosewood is used as a collective term and has more to do with marketing than with botanical classification. The English term rosewood refers to palisander, which is the trade name for various precious woods of the genus Dalbergia. This includes Sheesham (Dalbergia sissoo), which is native to the Indian subcontinent and cultivated in large plantations. The wood referred to as "Rosewood" by Indian manufacturers usually relates to Indian Rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia). Since 2016, all species of the Dalbergia genus have been listed in Appendix II of the Washington Convention (The only exception is Brazilian rosewood (also called Rio rosewood, botanically Dalbergia nigra), which is a highly endangered species listed in Appendix I of the Convention and subject to even stricter controls), which means that commercial trade is only possible after a clearance procedure by the exporting country. As far as I know, the Indian government (in this case representing the exporting country) is not limiting the use and export of sheesham and rosewood. Regarding "bud rosewood", it is slightly different. The wood so designated does to my understanding not even come from a Dalbergia genus, but is African Padauk (Pterocarpus soyauxii), which is currently not subject to any trade restrictions.

Here are examples of (1) Sheesham, (2) Rosewood and (3) Bud Rosewood:


Avatar of Pawnerai
KUDZU9 wrote:

Finally, if it's ok to purchase these, why would the "rosewood" command a significantly higher premium over "sheesham" as they seem to me to have pretty similar appearance and physical characteristics?

On a cursory level, rosewood is much scarcer than sheesham, so it commands a higher price. It has a deep dark color without staining or ebonizing for the black pieces. The use of rosewood in the manufacture of high-end furniture is BY FAR, the reason why rosewood is currently scarce. Chess pieces is a drop in the bucket. 

Once you get all that straight, among chess manufacturers and retailers these woods have alternate names as well. Good luck!

Sheesham / Golden Rosewood

Rosewood

Bud Rosewood / Blood Rosewood / Padauk 

Avatar of KineticPawn

@Pawnerai has a really nice camera and lighting. The subtleties of Indian Rosewood is often harder to pickup in a picture.  I have found its easier to tell apart in person and with natural light. It is perhaps my single favorite dark piece wood type. 

Here is a picture with 2 identical sets of pieces in different woods.  Ebony, Antiqued & Distressed Boxwood,  Indian Rosewood and Natural Boxwood. 

Avatar of Aernout_nl

@KineticPawn That's actually a very nice set! Do you happen to have a picture of it on a 2" or 50 mm board?

Avatar of Powderdigit
EfimLG47 wrote:

Here are examples of (1) Sheesham, (2) Rosewood and (3) Bud Rosewood:

@EfimLG47 - lovely photos and while not wanting to hijack this thread - I find that Sheesham set quite beautiful! I think the bishop is magnificent and indeed, the harmony between all the pieces (perhaps with the exception of the knight which doesn’t quite flow in my eyes but is still a lovely, simple piece) is quite wonderful. 

I am looking forward to your book Holger! 

Avatar of EuphoniousJones
KUDZU9 wrote:

... I can't figure out what is going on. If I buy one of the rosewood or sheesham sets, am I violating endangered species laws? 

kid, you'll need grit to win at chess; go join greenpeace.

Avatar of EfimLG47
Powderdigit hat geschrieben:
EfimLG47 wrote:

Here are examples of (1) Sheesham, (2) Rosewood and (3) Bud Rosewood:

@EfimLG47 - lovely photos and while not wanting to hijack this thread - I find that Sheesham set quite beautiful! I think the bishop is magnificent and indeed, the harmony between all the pieces (perhaps with the exception of the knight which doesn’t quite flow in my eyes but is still a lovely, simple piece) is quite wonderful. 

I am looking forward to your book Holger! 

@Powderdigit - Thanks. You have a keen eye and have noticed that these pictures are all taken from my book in the making. I was hoping to finish it until the end of this year, but I am so busy with other things that it will more likely be first quarter of 2022. I'll be satisfied if it gets finished at all.

Avatar of Greenmiller
@EfimLG47 gorgeous photos. What pieces are the sheesham and Bud rosewood? Not meaning to go off-topic but am considering the Zagreb in rosewood for myself down the road. What are your thoughts on the Zagreb set, hand feel, weight, craftsmanship and most important, playability?
Avatar of EfimLG47

@Greenmiller thanks. I have no idea what the sheesham pieces are, I picked them up together with a board I found quite attractive. The bud rosewood is the Joc Catalan repro by Chessbazaar, which is no longer produced. It was not the best and most accurate reproduction, but still a fascinating design. The Zagreb is in my view a fantastic set, in particular in rosewood. One of my favorite playing sets, actually.

Avatar of KineticPawn
Aernout_nl wrote:

@KineticPawn That's actually a very nice set! Do you happen to have a picture of it on a 2" or 50 mm board?

I actually don't but I'll try and get some next week when I visit a friend who has 55mm and 2" boards. 

Avatar of Aernout_nl

Much appreciated! :peaceful Regarding your Sweet Hill Wood board: how does it compare to e.g. Rachados Ferrer boards, since they are both veneer? Are they similar, or do they differ in quality of e g. wood under the veneer? What does "solid wood chess board" (from the Sweet Hill Wood website) mean in the context of veneer boards?