Clarifying the Botvinnik-Flohr Sets
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Botvinnik playing Smyslov with the Botvinnik-Flohr II (1935 design) set.
Jun 4, 2017
0
#24
JackieMatra wrote:
Here is a photograph of the cover of the original Russian language Soviet book on the 1933 Botvinnik-Flohr match, published in 1934, which shows a close-up of the chess set.
[URL=http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/JackieMatra/media/Flohr-
Botvinnik%201934_zpsrx2nwkdq.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q638/JackieMatra/Flohr-Botvinnik%201934_zpsrx2nwkdq.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Look at that Knight!
cgrau wrote:
Thanks, JM! Great photo!
Notice that, rather oddly, the white pawn on e4 and, perhaps, the black pawn on f7, look to be different from the remaining pawns.
Great post Sir!! I LOVE the one I grabbed. Though "civilian" it may be 
Ronbo710 wrote:
Great post Sir!! I LOVE the one I grabbed. Though "civilian" it may be
Very sweet Botvinnik-Flohr II set Ron. Is this your first Soviet set acquisition?
To simply and properly label the two types of chess sets, current manufacturers' names, which often are inaccurate and misleading, would best be ignored, and the sets should be referred to by their earliest or best known appearance.
The earlier of these two sets, used in the Botvinnik-Flohr match of 1933 would be referred to as the Botvinnik-Flohr set, as the match between these two players is when it was first seen to be used and is certainly the best known event where it was used.
The second of the two sets should be called the Moscow 1935 set, as that is the earliest and most well-known event that the set was used in.
Jun 5, 2017
0
#30
JackieMatra wrote:
To simply and properly label the two types of chess sets, current manufacturers' names, which often are inaccurate and misleading, would best be ignored, and the sets should be referred to by their earliest or best known appearance.
The earlier of these two sets, used in the Botvinnik-Flohr match of 1933 would be referred to as the Botvinnik-Flohr set, as the match between these two players is when it was first seen to be used and is certainly the best known event where it was used.
The second of the two sets should be called the Moscow 1935 set, as that is the earliest and most well-known event that the set was used in.
That's certainly a reasonable suggestion, JM. What do others think?
goodknightmike wrote:
Ronbo710 wrote:
Great post Sir!! I LOVE the one I grabbed. Though "civilian" it may be
Very sweet Botvinnik-Flohr II set Ron. Is this your first Soviet set acquisition?
Nearly my last one I bought. I got it a few months ago. I was amazed it survived all these years with such thin waistlines on the pieces. I LOVE those knights.
Jun 5, 2017
0
#32
I don't like the finish of either the HoS nor Chessbazaar sets, although the Chessbazaar 40-50s set is kind of nice. Too precise, too plastic, and too simple at the same time!
But the Kadun set is fantastic, really! It's the only set of these reproductions that captures the feeling of the original sets, no matter if it's exact or not. Is it trying to replicate a specific set or is it "merely" a retro set? I know I want it, but I ain't gonna buy it....
Jun 5, 2017
0
#33
Ronbo710 wrote:
Great post Sir!! I LOVE the one I grabbed. Though "civilian" it may be
Beautiful, Ronbo710. Is that brown, red, or reddish-brown?
Jun 6, 2017
0
#34
MakkeMus wrote:
I don't like the finish of either the HoS nor Chessbazaar sets, although the Chessbazaar 40-50s set is kind of nice. Too precise, too plastic, and too simple at the same time!
But the Kadun set is fantastic, really! It's the only set of these reproductions that captures the feeling of the original sets, no matter if it's exact or not. Is it trying to replicate a specific set or is it "merely" a retro set? I know I want it, but I ain't gonna buy it....
Both the Kadun 70 Retro and the CB '40-'50 Revised sets are reproductions of the set first used in the 1935 Moscow Tournament, which Mike refers to as the "Botvinnik-Flohr II" set. That set was used as a first level tournament set for decades, and the photographic record is full of pictures of it.
Sep 18, 2024
0
#35
cgrau wrote:
Addendum
There are two contemporary reproductions of the '35 set, but neither links the pieces to Botvinnik, Flohr, or the '35 Moscow tournament.
Chess Bazaar offers what it calls the 1940-50 Reproduced (Soviet Era) Russian Series Chess Set Revised.
Which of the Botvinnik Flohr-II sets do these two modern reproductions reproduce? Because neither one features a knight that looks like your set 2 below.
And Kadun’s version features looks that look a bit more like the set 3 (?) below. But even this set has a ridge under the battlement. Where does the ridge-less rook design come from?
Royal Chess Mall’s reproduction seems a lot closer BFII set 2:
Any idea what knights ChessBazaar and Kadun based their knights on?
This is the iconic photo of the '33 Botvinnik Flohr match. When you enlarge it, it's clear that these are the pieces that ChessBazaar and House of Staunton have reproduced. HOS and CB got the basic design elements right, except perhaps the rook. The original rook appears to have straight tower walls, not curved ones like the modern reproductions.
Here is a photograph of the cover of the original Russian language Soviet book on the 1933 Botvinnik-Flohr match, published in 1934, which shows a close-up of the chess set.
[URL=http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/JackieMatra/media/Flohr-
Botvinnik%201934_zpsrx2nwkdq.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q638/JackieMatra/Flohr-Botvinnik%201934_zpsrx2nwkdq.jpg[/IMG][/URL]