Contacted chessbazaar about replicating NOJ set

I know some people didn't like the idea of chessbazaar from profiting on noj's initiative and work in developing the Tal set.  But noj jacked up the price several hundred dollars since it was first introduced...almost beyond reach for a man of ordinary means.  The finish on the pieces though, is first rate, and I don't think chessbazaar will match that quality, so I don't think cb would be able to take over the market for this set anyway, and NOJ's ability to produce sets is limited anyway.   Anyway hope you guys aren't mad!

What's the old saying, "when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas." It wouldn't matter to CB if the Noj design was copyrighted or not, if they can see their way to making a profit, ethics be damned!

Even if they are stealing other peoples' designs, do you really think anyone's going to bring suite against them in an Indian court?

I'm pretty sure it was even cheaper than 548 originally when I first took notice of the set from these forums.  I may have screwed up, but well, let he who is without Tal set, cast the first rook at me!

It's a very nice set, so I like the idea of a more financially feasible version coming on the market. Over the years that I've looked online at chess sets on and off though, I never really liked CB's sets. I think overall their designs are too big and their knights too non-standard for me. If they do get this set right, however, I might be interested.

p.s. I agree about the prices of the NOJ pieces. No doubt they make excellent products but they have raised their prices a lot. I think the dubrovnik has gone up 150 to 200 euro actually, over a period of two years or so.

I think Noj's prices are fine.  That's what you should pay for artisan work made by hand, w/out taking advantage of third world labour costs.

Besides the ultra fine craftsmanship from noj the reason why no India carver will ever duplicate it is they do not use maple and walnut in India.  To me these woods are just as important to the noj set as is the craftsmanship.  India carvers do not come close to the noj sets in my opinion. 

I agree with wiscmike.  I do own 4 Noj made sets and the woods, European Walnut and European Maple,  are distinctive and really add to the quality of the set.

One of my pet peeves. Strong letter to follow.

yeah that's what I'm thinking.  noj will still hold onto the high end market, and with their production backlog, that's about all they can supply anyway so I don't really think it would hurt noj if a lower end boxwood /stained or sheesham set came about.

Then we come to the discussion of value.  I am the first to admit that Noj is high priced.  In fact there are 2 sets that I would buy except the prices are higher than I want to spend.

However, the value of the Noj set is more than excellent.  Each one of the sets I own that they have made are excellent to look at and excellent to handle and play with.

As wiscmike pointed out the woods they use actually make the pieces better in quality.

I have owned my Noj Dubrovnik II in Walnut for 7 years now.  That set looks and plays as good as new.  I can't say that about my HoS Morphy Series set in Blood Rosewood, which retailed for about $900.  And yes, it was made in India.

Chess Bazaar does make some nice sets.  Their Latvian set, for instance, is really nice.

The Tal set has and continues to intrigue me (read I will probably buy it sometime soon).  I really cannot envision any manufacturer from India making that set as clean and detailed as the Noj version.  I say this from a number of years watching and experiencing chess sets made from pretty much everywhere.

And, fewlio, I am going to take you up on an earlier comment you made.  I am currently without a Tal set.  And I am happy to cast the first rook in your direction...

Really, The House of Staunton and to a limited degree, read Piatigorsky Series, Carl who owns Official Staunton, are pretty much the only places I see producing sets that are not only reproductions of English made Staunton sets (I'm not talking about direct manufacturers or sellers from India).

If either one of them produced a reproduction of that Tal set, I would look seriously at it.  But, the Chess Bazaar history has not shown a high degree of accuracy in reproducing the exact original.

I just can not believe how some guys actually are able to proudly say they will have CB do a reproduction of the Tal set which NOJ, Chuck and more people spend weeks to design and months to make. And all this just because of saving a few bucks as if you are supposed to be able to buy things you can't afford. You could save up a the extra 100 USD which shouldn't take that long and then buy the real thing and feel proud of yourself but instead you lower yourself to the status of sorry i must say just scum and vomit. Last week on Facebook that guy bragging about just about the same story and now this thread. All this finding excuses as "the price is to high for the ordinary man" or "NOJ's ability is limited". Simply shameless if you ask me to be the one ripping it off and justifying your own behavior because not only you want to rip it but you just can't handle feeling bad about it so you need to come out with your excuses looking for justifications. Why start a thread like this at all, what a disgrace you must feel so proud of yourself. 

Don't hold back or mince words.  Tell us what you really think

Thank you Eyechess was just speaking out my minds. Just calling it like it is.

 

Chessbazaar is affordable luxury chess sets.  Nice looking chess sets for the rest of us!  It's like saying, why buy a lexus or infiniti car, save up and buy the cadillac or mercedes or else you are scum!  Well actually no, lexus is luxurious and more affordable than some luxury brands, so there is a demand for it.  And just because some people buy from chessbazaar doesn't mean other people can't buy the nicer set from NOJ, and all the people can be happy.  The only ethical issue here of course is that NOJ and the chess.com member worked hard to make the set a reality, but like I said I don't think it'll make NOJ's customers cancel orders...they are happy paying a high price for impeccable unmatched quality work and woods.  It'll just open the set up to us boxwood/sheesham people lol

The set for the boxwood/sheesham people is not the only thing you opened.... Lol... I will not enter a discussion with people who deny decency having any value ... You are a scum and a disgrace and there are no other words for it thats why i use them better get used to it cause it doesn't seem as you realize it so it will stay like that for quite a while. But never the less please be proud of it and make a fool of yourself a bit more so we can have a laugh ...

 

Right now I'm having a laugh at you trying to use the english language...and failing! lol

Decency is far more important than a correct English. You can be a scum if you want, it's ok.

This is no laughing matter, Fewlio. You're making a lot of assumptions about the business model of a firm you know nothing about. NOJ is a small family business that took a big risk by investing enormous time and effort working with us to resurrect the Tal set and design. It's no given that they will maintain the market share they need to recoup their development costs if someone else now pirates our work and undercuts them.

By aiding and abetting piracy to save yourself a few bucks you're doing a major disservice to chess collectors and players who want to see new reproductions. Not long ago Official Staunton was burned when the Piatigorsky design it had worked hard with Mike Ladzinski to reproduce was ripped off, its prices undercut, and it was forced from the market long before plot reasonably could have been expected to earn its development costs back, let alone make a profit. If this is what NOJ and OS face this every time they undertake the risk of developing a new reproduction from a handful of old photographs, how long will it be before they decline to do so? The result is that we never will see the next Tal set. You may laugh out loud all you want, but I am deeply troubled and saddened by it.

Let me assure you, calling people "scum and vomit" for buying replica chess sets is not decency at all.  It's the furthest thing from it.  Beyond being rude, it's just childish and silly.