“How Much Is That Knight In The Window?”

Let’s begin with a few facts when dealing with anything, including Chess stuff.

1. There are 3 factors in business and it is not realistically possible to have all 3 at the same time in normal business:

  a. High Quality

  b. High or Great Service

  c. The Lowest Prices in that market

Yes you might be able to happen upon a one off situation, but that is extremely rare.

As an example the Rolex Submariner watch has a very high quality.  The Rolex Company provides a very high level of service,.  But they certainly do not have the low price.  
There are lower priced alternatives as can be found in lists and reviews on the internet.  However in each and every case the lower priced options have one or more details that are of a lower quality than the Rolex.  
In Chess sets, this is also true.  Not one person on this forum has been able to show that Noj produces anything but the best quality.  And their service has also been extremely high.  Yes, there is one, recent incident of a miscommunication, but then Noj stepped up and corrected the situation as best as anyone could.  Of course, they do not have the low price in the market.

2. You get what you pay for.

Yes, in Chess, at this time, we are experiencing the emergence of a few India companies providing direct to the consumer sales.  And these prices are lower than the few retailers that had their prices set before the coming of the direct sellers.  But you still will pay more to the better quality direct sellers than to those providing, objectively lower quality products in the same way.  And we are also seeing service suffer.  I will write more details of these two points shortly.

First, I would like to point out an example where a direct seller is not noticeably less expensive for the same product as a retailer.

Apparently Chess Empire provided the Mechanics Institute Set to HoS as a wholesaler.  The pieces look identical both in photos and details.

Chess Empire has this set on sale, in Sheesham or Golden Rosewood for $153.00 delivered.

The House of Staunton has the same set, on sale (20% discount & 10% buyers club discount) in the same wood as above for $157.68. 

So, the direct sellers are not necessarily selling the exact same product for a significantly lower price than the retailers.

Quality and Service are not the same also between all these places.  A friend of mine recently bought a set from Staunton Castle.  There is a problem with the antique and finish effect.  The response from the company is to have him let the set sit in the open for a few weeks to see if it “settles”.  
Another friend of mine bought a set from HoS that had a similar flaw, last year as I recollect.  HoS sent out replacements immediately at no charge.

One company in India, Royal Chess Mall, has taken the lowest priced position of these direct sale reproducers at this time.  You can read the details of their sets that they sell at a significantly lower price than others, including the other direct sellers.  When comparing their sets to the other, higher priced sets, you will see some specifics of a lower quality product, compared to the others.  I have seen at least 3 of ther sets having the pieces be smaller and of a lighter weight.  You get what you pay for.

I am all about the buyer being completely informed.  I am not about anyone paying more money than they need to.

If you want the lowest priced item AND you are willing to accept the lower quality, then that is fine by me.

What I don’t like are those trying to convince others that the lower price is all that matters because the specification and quality differences don’t matter when they can and often do.

KnightsForkCafe is all about the price.  He says the details don’t matter.  That’s fine for him.  Others may prefer the higher quality even though the price is higher.  
In the past, we really did not need to pay attention to the details like weight, base diameter and so on when buying a set.  If the pictures of the set on the internet looked like the one we liked, we could trust the quality was there.  This is no longer true.

So look in the store window and wonder how much that doggie costs all you want.  Just make sure the doggie you buy is the doggie you see.

Yeah, your complaining about prices being outrageous has indeed worn quite thin.

it is true that you get what you pay for.  That is true unless you insist that a 0.7 lbs weight difference in a chess set does not matter or is within tolerance.

Feel free to sing the praises of the places you get Chess sets from.  Just stop making less of Chess sets you do not own and only want to complain about the price.

I also am happy to own a good number of Chess Bazaar sets.  They put out a very nice product at competitive prices.

Keep calm and carry on.

It's fine by you if others place a priority on price, but you're going to name and shame them. That doesn't sound very "fine by me". Convince others? Come on man, we are mostly adults here - capable of making our own decisions.

Actually, the only one I called out was one that insulted and attacked and outright lied about me, quite a bit on this forum.  No matter how much I attempted to point out quality differences, he kept on, wrongly.  
I called him out by name because his advice to others on this forum continues to be flawed and wrong.

Yeah, buy what you want.  I don’t care one way or the other.

I continue to see why so many good posters in this forum have left.

What happens when you think that a Rolex sub is ugly ?

And more in too vintage watches .Like Mr Don Draper ?

sound67

and HoS may be valid for US customers (and only because HoS is an American retailer), but not for any the place on the world. Shipping charges of HoS to other countries add to the final price significantly

As with Op ,  On Noj after vat tax here in europe prices  gets silly ,

Then with covid 19 &  america health insurance not wise time to keep pushing for high price remakes on chess set .

When most people just trying too pay bills or make ends meet etc ?

I have to tell you guys that for a modest chess pieces enthusiast/buyer all these posts/threads provide an enormous wealth of information. Even when there are differences of opinion the arguments are mostly clear and a reader can make up his own mind about the issues.

Only the acronyms sometimes need some deciphering, but I guess anything unclear can get clear by a simple question.

@MCH818 - The way you numbered your sets had me thinking you had five, but upon closer inspection it's actually eight! Thought that was sneaky. I should try it sometime :-)

BTW, which one is your favorite? Even though you said you love all your sets, there must be one, since you also confessed OS Cooke is your #3 favorite behind SC Morphy. 

@martyn-n  I have to agree with you. All these posts (and cake throwing included) is indeed filled with wealth of information. It certainly makes it worth visiting this forum everyday even though it may mean you may find yourself one day drooling over pieces you don't need and shouldn't be looking.

@MCH818 - Is this the HoS Collectors 3.75 that you're referring to as your favorite set? 

https://www.houseofstaunton.com/the-collector-series-plastic-chessmen-3-75-king.html

They're... plastic. Nothing wrong with plastics of course, but I don't think Noj or other Indian manufacturers who pride themselves with wood craftsmanship would be happy with your ranking. Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Eyechess - Sorry for hijacking your thread.

I completely agree with MCH......But....I can appreciate  how much time Eyechess must have  put into keyboarding his thoughts,so I don't wish to disagree with his "intent" to start a nice thread.

Of course,it leaves it open for disagreement.....Here's my only one......

In this modern age,you can be less expensive,offer great service and have a great product!

Just look at a company  like Sonos! They have turned the high end audio industry into a thing of the past......They make a phenomenally good speaker combination for stereo...The Play 5's,with matching sub woofer.....They also offer smart speakers at all price ranges and the performance offered by this new technology is quickly pushing conventional audio companies into the dust bin.

TV's......Now cheap and fantastic quality.They last forever these days.....I can't kill my Sony LCD TV,which is about 15 years old....It cost $2500 back then....It can be had for about $200 today.

My personal business,which I sold 3 years ago(thank God)......It was a Print and Graphics business,which I ran for 35 years.....I had to keep reducing my prices yearly(for the most part) due to competition and where the industry was going,but my service and quality/customer care was exceptional,so I was always a profitable organization....Proud of that!

If you do volume,have excellent employees,are not selfish and have a good forward thinking game plan,you can offer lower price,exemplary service and high quality.

It's done every day.,

No, it’s good.

Here are a few that I own:

1. Morphy ------------ 4"/101.6mm 1.875"/47.6mm
2. Mechanics Institute 4.25"/108mm 1.875"/47.6mm
3. Marshall ---------- 4"/101.6mm 1.85"/47mm
4. Piatigorsky-------- 4.375"/111.125mm 1.825"/46.36mm
5. Players------------ 3.75"/95.3mm 1.75"/44.4mm
6. Leuchars----------- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.75"/44.4mm
7. Professional------- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.75"/44.4mm
8. Zagreb------------- 3.875"/98.4mm 1.75"/44.4mm
9. Soviet Latvian----- 4.17"/106mm 1.69"/43mm
10. GM Pavasovic------ 3.89"/99mm 1.65"/42mm
11. B H Wood Gld Rsd-- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.65"/42mm
12. B H Wood Eb------- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.65"/42mm
13. Grandmaster Gld Rwd 4"/101.6mm 1.65"/42mm
14. Fischer-Spassky---- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.625"/41.3mm
15. Fischer-Spassky---- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.625"/41.3mm
16. Dreuke Players----- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.625"/41.3mm
17. BCE Walnut-------- 3.75"/95mm 1.61"/41mm
18. Liberty----------- 4"/101.6mm 1.6"/40.6mm
19. Ultimate-Rsewd---- 3.625"/92mm 1.56"/39.6mm
20. Ultimate-LtSheesh- 3.625"/92mm 1.56"/39.6mm
21. Dubrovnik Walnut-- 3.58"/91mm 1.54"/39mm
22. Dubrovnik Red----- 3.58"/91mm 1.54"/39mm
23. Dubrovnik Brown--- 3.58"/91mm 1.54"/39mm
24. Lardy Gld Rswd---- 3.75"/95.3mm 1.5"/38.1mm
25. Morphy Ebonized--- 3.5"/89mm 1.5"/38mm
26. Morphy Sheesham--- 3.5"/89mm 1.5"/38mm
27. Library Reykjavik- 3.25"/82.6mm 1.5"/38mm
28. Championship------ 3.75"/95.3mm 1.4"/35.5mm
29. Jaques 1925 Repro- 3.0"/77mm 1.375"/34.9mm
30. Fierce Knight----- 3.0"/77mm 1.3"/34mm

This is an old list.  Some have been added, ahem.

31. Craftsman Series Blood Rosewood

32. Cooke Luxury Series Mopane

33. Chavet from Chess Empire

34. Ultimate Wood from The Chess House in Anjan

35. Hungarian from Chess Bazaar

36. Official World Championship set from Chess Baron

37. Dubrovnik Minceta from Noj

38. Collector Library size Rosewood, I keep forgetting this one.

I think I forgot 1 or 2 others.  It’s late.

That's quite a collection Ron! How do you still like the Leuchars from OS? I remember you got that one. I've been very tempted with their sets as they were coming out with them years ago now. In fact, I wish that I had bought one or two of them. Their original prices were always a steal. After that, the markup would invariably get to 200/300 percent. I think it's the reason they keep updating their inventory and cutting old designs. Their 1870 from way back would sell for something like 200 euro, and that had striped ebony for the black side. Gorgeous. That same set now would cost you three times as much I think.

Despite what people might think of me for owning 2 Noj sets in the same design, I'm not made of money nor am I planning on that anytime soon. Price is an important consideration for me, with design or feel being equally important after that.

Having said all that, I haven't been tempted recently to get anything new. The 3,5 inch king Cooke repros make me curious from time to time. I just don't like that they seem a little fragile to me. I own about 6 sets, 2 of them Noj dubrovniks and I keep just grabbing those whenever I want to play or analyze. I'm not sure that would change if I got another set. I don't think it would.

Oh, I do like that Leuchars set as it is really nice.  I don’t use it as much because the dark pieces are black, Ebonized.  And I have realized that like loubalch, I prefer the colored woods like the various rosewoods, Mopane and Annan.

Agreed....That collection is stupendous!....I intend to use some psychology and show it to the wife when I decide to pull the trigger on my new(and final) set....Waiting for Black Friday,which will soften the blow.....I hope!

I think before you can make a determination as to quality v price for Indian manufactured sets you need to consider that once the set leaves the factory it is complete and will never be worked on again. Resellers, customs agents, lawyers, marketing etc. will not change the set in any way. I don't know if the manufacturers apply different grade of woods or processes or people to sets designated for a reseller rather than sets to be sold direct. But I very much doubt it. Having seen their operations in videos I don't think it would be possible.

So the extra $$$ seems to be spent on those things mentioned above. The only one of these that really matters is customer service. So if reseller A customer service is great, that is worth some expense to the customer. But I don't think the sets themselves are really any different to those sold direct, unless the manufacturer deliberately make them different for some reason. Adding or subtracting weight to a set doesn't really change it's quality since it is not expensive to add or subtract weight. Some prefer slightly less weight since the pieces are less prone to cracking over time or if dropped (me for example 😁). 

And many offer free shipping cost / How is it on the import tax sound67  ?

As buying stuff from the USA with shipping & import tax is a whole different story .

That is the HoS Morphy 4.0” in Rosewood.  I got it in 2004 just after Shawn bought and took over HoS from Frank.  I had been eyeing that set, but even without the box, they lowered the price with that gone, the set still retailed for $849.  
As you might remember me saying, Frank never gave more than a 10% discount, and I was an inaugural member of his buying club which gave me that anyway.  Well, I called and asked for the new owner, Shawn.  I simply asked what my price for that set would be, and said no more.  Shawn told me that I was a valued customer because I bought so many sets and stuff from them.  He gave me a whopping discount, which I took.  It wasn’t too much later that he must have talked with Frank or something and that wholesale discount disappeared for me.

Of course they have those big sales now that I always take advantage of if I am looking to buy something from them.

By the way, I sold my original HoS Marshall Series set and another board and set to pay for that Morphy.

This is what mine looks like.

Yes good point. Also it would be useful to know what the manufacturer got when these were sold wholesale as opposed to direct. We will never know but as I suggested before it must have been a significant difference, otherwise they would never have taken on the hassle of selling to individual customers.

Would love to see a side by side comparison of CB 3.75" 1849 to the SC version but I doubt if anyone has both.

That's beautiful. The blood rosewood looks like black from the photo. I've never handled blood rosewood or rosewood for that matter so perhaps it is reddish brown in real life. The board also looks beautiful. Is that from HOS as well?