Really interesting set - help me identify it?

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Avatar of bishippie

UPDATED BELOW with Better Pictures! Picking this up today. Looks old and in beautiful shape but ive never seen knights like that before. Seems to share some design elements with some brazilian sets posted lately (whic I've been obsessed with!) but i dont know. Anyone have any ideas or info about this set? Interedted to figure out what woods these are as well.

 

Thanks in advance!

i can post more pictures once it is in my posession. 


 

Avatar of IpswichMatt

Looks like a nice set. Like the blue baize on the bases, that's quite unusual. It's weighted.

Looks like ebony and boxwood.

I'd have said it was probably British made from about 1900, except for those Knights - I've not seen any Knights like that.

It appears to be in very good condition too - can't see any pawn collars chipped, and the Queens' finials look to be intact.

Avatar of GrandPatzerDave-taken

Look likes a black rook has some damage.  Is this the long-lost Big-Head Knight set?  ;-)

Avatar of bishippie
Yeah i saw that on the rook. We can’t all be perfect! 😂 maybe I’ll get it repaired. I’ll play some games with t first and see how I like it!
Avatar of GrandPatzerDave-taken

It definitely looks like a nice set!  The white-side wood is beautiful.  How tall are the kings?

Avatar of DrChesspain

The knights are cute.  They remind me of:

Avatar of bishippie

Finally got the pieces! 

I'm still trying to figure out what these are. I was surprised to find out they aren't weighted!!  under the felt, each pieces seems to have a nail or tack something in it to center the pieces when playing, and they are solid while playing - they don't rock.  Actually, it might be light weighting. there is no way to know without lifting the felt. They are surprising light though. 

I love the design. The king is 3.75" The black side is painted, and the light side doesn't seem to be boxwood. It seems darker and has a different grain than boxwood to my eye. Any ideas about the type of wood would also be a huge help. 

What do you think? Random antique British set? 









Avatar of bishippie

Last bump before I give up! tear.png

Avatar of IpswichMatt

From the pics the White pieces look like boxwood to me - boxwood gets fairly dark when it's old, sort of toffee coloured

Avatar of bishippie
Oh that’s good to know. I never saw such pronounced grain in boxwood, especially not in parallel lines like that... but I’m also not an expert by any stretch. Do you have another example of aged boxwood?
Avatar of IpswichMatt

Here's a picture of a piece from a cheap old set. It's very dirty, but it shows the difference in what the boxwood looks like originally (where it's broken) and how it looks old. Can't see the grain much though, I'll have a look when I'm at home to see if I have any pieces with prominent grain

Avatar of Silver-Myth

That set reminds me of some of the vintage reproduced sets that are available from the market. You can see the reproduced chess pieces at chessbazaar.com  The knights are unique, I haven't seen any like that in the traditional sets.  The black pieces could be ebony or ebonized boxwood.

Avatar of bishippie

Thanks Matt, Silver... 

The black pieces are painted, as I mentioned above along with some additional details. I've never seen an Indian repro set like this...  Are there any other telltale signs I could look for? I know it was purchased secondhand by the last owner about 20 years ago. The few experts I've sent them past had also never seen a set like it, but the general consensus seems to be early 1900s and British, but I'm not sure... I'm quite determined to figure it out!

 

Avatar of Silver-Myth

It's hard to say but by the looks of it, the set appears to be of the 1849 Staunton design.  Here's some links to some pics of old knights: 3c44f188ab.jpg

BCS_Ns1.jpg

Avatar of tmkroll

If you're going to compare them to Jaques they look more like "megamouth" design (not pictured there) which Camaratta says is 1865ish (I know there are people in this site more versed in Jaques Knights than I am.) Actually this set he has up which he says "bears a passing resemblance Jaques Magamouth" looks to me a bit more like your set than either of them look like Jaques: https://chessantiques.com/product/antique-tournament-size-staunton-chessmen/

Avatar of lighthouse

It's very hard to tell fom photos ! never seen nails as weights from a english set from 1900 !

If it  is from the 1900's should have more signs of hard knocks kings & queen's look to clean with no damage .

Then black paint / black side ?  I think this set is from a later date or remake not from 1900's

Also no kings side markings ?

Avatar of bishippie

lighthouse - it's true the set is in very nice condition. One of the rooks is chipped, but I plan on having it repaired. 

 

The only reason why I don't think this is a reproduction, is that most reproduction sets use boxwood for the light side, and I don't think this is boxwood. I've examined a number of antique boxwood pieces and this grain is different. Additionally, most repros are of notable historical sets, and this doesn't really clearly resemble a significant historical set. I agree with TmkRoll that https://chessantiques.com/product/antique-tournament-size-staunton-chessmen/ is VERY close to it. Perhaps I'll reach out to Frank C. and see if he has any ideas. 

 

Thanks!

 

Avatar of tmkroll

Just one more thought, re: nails in pieces. Whenever I've seen pieces with uniform holes in the bottom before (that weren't made in this way to sit on nails in an compendium or something) they've been made in this way on a screw chuck, and the hole has been left open or covered with the felt/baize. I'm generally talking about Austrian Coffeehouse sets. If the holes in this set were made by a chuck on the lathe that might also suggest German/Austrian/Eastern European origin?

Avatar of IpswichMatt
I’d agree it doesn’t look like a modern repro, at least not an Amritsar repro - the reason I say that is that the tops of the pawns are round. All recent Indian sets that I’ve seen don’t have properly spherical tops.
Avatar of bishippie

Thanks Matt - I worked through some endgame studies last night with them. Just got a MINT vintage 2.25" drueke board in the mail. Not a scratch on it and sticker is perfect - the previous owner received it as a present in the 70s but didn't actually play chess so it stayed on the wall for 50 years!! 

 

Anyway, I took out these pieces and messed around with them, and I'm not actually sure if there really are nails in the bottom. It might just be VERY lightly weighted. I don't really want to remove the felt to find out since it's original. Might just have to live with this mystery, eh?