Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

Matt,

in terms of absolute volume of material the chess piece market probably doesn't matter that much.  Its a very very small industry.  In terms of ethical behaviour we should be asking where the timber comes from and whether its legally sourced.  Keep in mind that most rosewood has required CITES documentation for international shipping for a couple of years now, which is why the woodworking tools vendors stopped using it (selling non-rosewood as rosewood to woodworkers would be a career limiting move).  So asking the people who continue to ship what they claim is rosewood (its either not rosewood, dalbergia, or not legally shipped, keep in mind that bud rosewood is a term used only or almost only by chess piece manufacturers) whether they are doing the right thing may not be all that useful a thing to do.  More detail: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/rosewoods-bubinga-really-banned-cites/#a

In response to post 4157...absolutley its overpriced. Tim is a dealing with lots of experience and he's trying to say that Anderssen is similar to the 1849 that just sold!

Hi all! I need a little help to identify this Jaques set. Well, I don't even know if it's legit but for the looks of it, I think it is. Since it seems recent, I went to Jaques site but couldn't find a similar set. The interior of the boxes are all green or dark brown. Also, according to one of the cards, the set is based on the 1847 design... I thought the first Jaques is from 1849, it even says so on the same card!? Very confusing XD The King is 4" and the set comes with a 23" Jaques board although it has a few spots as you can see on the pictures. Also, there are 2 keys included and it seems the cheesmen are in pristine condition. Unfortunately there are no pictures showing the Knights properly. How much would you say the set is worth? Cheers!

That's one of their new reintroduction sets 

1847?

That's my guess as well but I can't find this set on their official online store. Therefore I have no clue as to how much should I pay for it or if it's even worth it

Oh wait, that's the name of the set, sorry I didn't understand you at first. The size and look of the box matches. I guess the color varies for some reason. Maybe there was a box + board set at some point and that explains the different color? The explanation of the set from the site says it is a 500 limited run (can't see any number within that range on the documents pictured) and that the "exact replica" is based on the 1890's design contradicting the document from this set (picture 6.)

Any clues?

The bishops look like 1890 - 1900 era.

I Forgot how I found this guy. I had a VERY THICK vinyl board with 2.375" squares I bought in --then-- Yougoslavia when I was at the 29th World Chess Olympiad that was held in Novi Sad. But what I REALLY wanted a solid WOOD board -- no veneers -- with 2.5" squares for that HOS Collector Series Luxury Chess Pieces - 4.0" King in Boxwood and Rosewood I bought the year before. I Really liked the HOS "Signature" Series boards BUT their prices for those boards were W-A-Y more than I could afford, so I think I tried to find WHO actually made their boards to see if I could buy a board minus the Middle Man, but some how found Custom Chess. The "Great Recession" was just ending and he was running a 20-25% discount on ANY board he made. I *Think* that the Cheapest Board he made at that time was about $500 depending on the woods used. $400 was a *lot* cheaper than the no frills boards offered by HOS, (which truthfully I think look truly dreadful even if they are sold by HOS) which I think at that time were going for $750-$850 depending on the woods used, and they only used TWO woods.  My board has in contrast has *5* different woods that were used, 2 different Polyurethanes used, plus he added the special "Rubber Feet" I tracked down and had sent to him, and a BLACK felt bottom.  The special corners, and delimiter made of Spalted Maple added about $75 to $100 to the final cost and were the ONLY Non-Stock Options of the finished board, other wise it is a fairly generic board that used no exotic woods that cost EXTRA (other than the Spalted Maple).  Today that is about a $750-$800 Board and trumps those dfreadful no frills boards offered by HOS.

2008-2010 were great years if you were in the market and REALLY wanted to buy a boutique chess set and board. I think I paid a little over $1,000 for the Luxury pieces (that came with that brass plaque as seen inside the lid of the coffer, and is registered to me, which followed in the steps of Jaques with their paper labels), the coffer, and the board all combined. Today at a minimum you would be looking at closer to $2,000 -- probably more since HOS no longer offers that particular set in Boxwood and Rosewood.  Today I would no longer be able to afford this entire set, given that I live on SS.

This may or may NOT be one of the Jaque's Re-introduction sets -- that or it is a cheap Chinese Knock Off. I find it incredible that IF it is a genuine Jaques set that they forget their own history -- they should know as most neophytes know that the first Jaques set was introduced in 1849, NOT 1847.  Indeed I do agree with one statement made on that card: BEWARE OF IMITATIONS. IF this is a GENUINE Jaques set, I still would not buy it as it shows how little they care about their own sets that they put the WRONG DATE on their certificate of authenticity. The pieces are not horrible, but the faulty "certificate" means that that it is mass produced set and that they are trading on their name. I probably would not pay more than $30 -$50 tops for the pieces and no more than $50 - $75 for the board and pieces together. It is a great set for skittles and speed chess, but it is not a heirloom  quality set. In short it is JUNK IMHO. If you are looking for a genuine heirloom quality set look at either HOS or Official Staunton. Jaques of today is but a shadow of its former glory when the name Jaques actually represented a company of fine craftsmanship, and innovation, neither of which exist there today.

Looks like a genuine reintroduction to me. The certificate says the "design of 1847". So was it designed in 1847 and introduced to the public for sale in September 1849? Also any set you see for sale could be a Chinese knock off. Do you have any evidence to even suggest that it might be a knock off. The date does look unusual but when this set was introduced and advertised in Chess Life I distinctly remember it mentioning that date.

Thank you all for the help! It makes sense if this is a reintroduction set as GM4-U said because according to JoL site, the pieces are a replica of the 1890 era, again matching Gomer_Pyle image for bishops. If this set is not a knockoff, then I totally agree with azbobcat on how little care JoL puts on the documentation of such sets. The price for this set new on their site is £999 or almost $1300. I can't believe having these mistakes on such expensive set. The chessmen though... and this is what's important to me, they don't look bad at all.

There are little details that make's me think this is not a copy but I could be wrong. Unfortunately I didn't have time to read all the 200+ pages of this thread. I'll try to go through most of them tonight. Have you guys found evidences of copies in existence? If so, it could be interesting to compare those to this set. In Japan, counterfeit is pretty rare but obviously not immune, no country is.

Sorry Audioq, I didn't see your post. Do you have a link to that Chess Life info you talk about? It's pretty hard to get any information or good pictures from JoL site. The little info a could gather is from eBay finished auctions.

Chinese knock off lol.  We are talking about reproduction sets.  They are all knock offs!

It looks like the post about the reintroduction set got deleted?  Why?  I admit it seemed a little off, with the date and the bishops especially.

Yeah, strange that it disappeared. Maybe somebody was testing the market with a modified Marshall set from HOS. I'm no expert on Jaques. I only noticed the bishop because it's my favorite bishop design and I know it came with the HOS Marshall sets.

I'm back. My account was flagged as spam and all my posts got removed, sorry about that. Already talked to the support team and got it all fixed as you can see

Thanks rcmacmillan for confirming the authenticity of the set. I also found an auction that shows the exact same sloppy documentation. I was genuinely interested on knowing the authenticity and type of this set because not many good chess sets are found in Japan. Here Shogi and Go are king.

As for the price, even if second hand and with several spots on the board, I'm afraid is going to cost more than just $100. The shop that sells it, deals with luxurious second hand items and posted it on an auction. I might be able to get it at a good price but I don't want to overpay for it.

If that is the case I *still* would not buy the set. It is simply plain sloppy to put out a certificate with the WRONG DATE! Inexcusable PERIOD!! JoL is simply over rated. Do yourself a favor and buy either a set from HoS or Official Staunton, both have sets that JoL never DREAMED of selling. Some of the MODERN sets are truly works of art.

If you don't take enough pride in knowledge of your own family history, WHY should I buy from you?  JoL simply does not give a fig (not quite the word I wanted to use) and is trading on the Jaques name and are charging a premium for it. The CERTIFICATE -- with its WRONG DATE -- is what gives value to any set, since it  goes with it. I'm not going to buy an horribly over priced item simply because it says JoL, if the CERTIFICATE that goes with it is JUNK, the set is JUNK!!! If JoL does NOT take enough pride in the sets they sell to include an ACCURATE Certificate, then I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Thanks for your honest opinion azbobcat, I get your point but again, having a chance to get what I consider a good set for a good price (for now) doesn't happen too often in this country. A pity about the documentation but as long as the pieces are in good shape and the craftsmanship is top quality (to my eyes and by checking the pictures, it looks like it is) I'm more than satisfied.

On a side note, I really need a large board to play with my Chavet B212 which has a 4.4" King so this 23" will do fine I think.
I have one questions. Are Jaques chessmen made from a single piece of wood each? I read the newer King cross can be replaced? About the Knight. It looks like the base and the body of the horse are separated in most pictures I've seen... sometimes (specially on old sets) the colors don't even match.

It is typical that Kings crosses are attached separately regardless of if they are permanently attached or replacable.  Same goes with knights.  Most consist of a body carved and placed on a separate base, although some are one piece.