Actually a label like that is a bit of a giveaway in the first place. It's obviously been lifted and also the lining of the lid tells us that is not the original label.
How does the lining of the lid indicate that this is not the original label?
Actually a label like that is a bit of a giveaway in the first place. It's obviously been lifted and also the lining of the lid tells us that is not the original label.
How does the lining of the lid indicate that this is not the original label?
It doesn't indicate it as a certainty but what is certain is that the label has been put onto that box after it was washed. The lining shows no fading under the parts of the label that have been damaged so that you can see the felt. In all likelihood it's new felt. As I explained, I do not think that the box is up to the quality one would expect from Jaques. I should have said that the label isn't in its original position. Of that there's no doubt. I can tell that it's been off the box, if it was ever on that box in the first place, which I doubt. An old friend of mine, now deceased, collected chess sets and he had a few Jaques. I can only say I didn't notice a box that looked like it was from a much cheaper set, in his collection. If there are no markings on the pieces (I don't know if they normally carry markings) I think it can be assumed that the set isn't Jaques. The label could even have been photoshopped from a real one and distressed and then washed.
Originally my interest in this kind of thing came from dealing in antiquarian books in the 1980s. The general feeling in the book trade was that you can repair old books but that you should not try to pass them off as unrestored. That is, you should leave some evidence that a book has been restored. In this case, there is evidence but it hasn't been left there deliberately. It's just that it's been done hamfistedly.
I often played around with a selection of different dies, furniture polish and a kind of resiny substance to restore old books that might be faded and I was pretty good at gluing them back together. The first time I sold some of my repaired books to an antiquarian dealer I pointed out that "somebody" had obviously had a go at repairing one of them and the dealer looked at it and replied "well he obviously knew what he was doing". I just kept quiet but took it as confirmation that I could carry on like that, which I did for years. I never tried to make Frankenstein books .... they were all honest repairs but in the case of this chess set, that doesn't seem to be the case. The correct and honest procedure would be not to reaffix the label but to include it in an envelope.
Thanks. What makes you say the label has been washed?
The pieces are definitely Jaques, and look to be in keeping with the label - i.e. a very early set. (I know this from seeing the other photos). I suspect that the pieces originally came in a paper mache casket, these caskets are fragile and often didn't survive, which is why the box was replaced. That's my guess anyway. The box looks to me like maybe 1900 or so (judging by the hinges and the catch) but could be later.
It's too clean and yet frayed round the edges, in keeping with something that was in quite a bad state.
I think the box could be anything from the 1870s to the 1930s based on the particular form of jointing, which was locking. I can recall my father making a similar joint in the mid 1950s when I would have been about five or six and I don't think he ever did so again. He was a quantity surveyor and not a carpenter. In the late 60s I had a girlfriend whose father was an insurance agent but also evidently an expert carpenter and he had made a bureau which was beautifully done with similar joints. I'm only guessing here but I suspect that type of jointing went out with the advent of better glues. In the 50s they still used animal based glue, which I think could become fragile with age. Hence things like that were constructed to hold themselves together. I'm only guessing based on memories. I have a couple of old chess sets. Perhaps if I dig them out sometime, you could tell me what you think they are, based on a photograph?
Now this is going to be a complete guess, based on the experience I've had with old documents, labels and the like. I would say that the label is from the 1850s, due to the edge decoration, although it might be photoshopped and distressed. However, occasionally, older styles were retained and it could maybe be as late as the 1880s. However, I have to disagree with you regarding the hinges. They're 1950s I think, based on the chamfering, which is inaccurate and also the fact that I believe they are not the original hinges because they don't fit the recesses accurately. Imo the screws are definitely 1950s to 1970s. At that time you could buy them in brass and also in mild steel. These are brass and so they would definitely have developed a patina, had they been 120 years old. It's mainly instinct but I would not touch this set.
Now this is going to be a complete guess, based on the experience I've had with old documents, labels and the like. I would say that the label is from the 1850s, due to the edge decoration, although it might be photoshopped and distressed.
Very good! Probably 1855. See the link below for a better pic of a similar label:
I have a couple of old chess sets. Perhaps if I dig them out sometime, you could tell me what you think they are, based on a photograph?
Yes, post here or start a new thread - lots of experts post here.
I'll post here when I dig one of them out. Not sure where they are.
Can you see the differences between "your" box and the images of what I believe are authentic boxes, which you linked to? Type of wood, accuracy of construction, correct screws, chamfering to fit them etc? In those days obviously it was mainly hand done and they didn't over-chamfer.
Now this is going to be a complete guess, based on the experience I've had with old documents, labels and the like. I would say that the label is from the 1850s, due to the edge decoration, although it might be photoshopped and distressed. However, occasionally, older styles were retained and it could maybe be as late as the 1880s. However, I have to disagree with you regarding the hinges. They're 1950s I think, based on the chamfering, which is inaccurate and also the fact that I believe they are not the original hinges because they don't fit the recesses accurately. Imo the screws are definitely 1950s to 1970s. At that time you could buy them in brass and also in mild steel. These are brass and so they would definitely have developed a patina, had they been 120 years old. It's mainly instinct but I would not touch this set.
Agree with @Optimissed on this one. Based on the pictures, the hardware / box in general doesn't look up to scratch. The pieces look pretty legitimate, but with a fairly questionable box and the 'replacement knights' it's unlikely that you've stuck gold with this set. Might be legitimate mistake from the seller but based on the images, parts have been repaired or substituted over time.
Also, I've worked with brass for a long time and it's fairly easy to tell if it's 'aged' as original with an experienced eye. My guess would be at the very least a label has been put on another box to sell with the pieces. The felt in the lid looks kind of messy as well at the edges. Not something you'd expect from a Jaques original.
Also, I've worked with brass for a long time and it's fairly easy to tell if it's 'aged' as original with an experienced eye. My guess would be at the very least a label has been put on another box to sell with the pieces. The felt in the lid looks kind of messy as well at the edges. Not something you'd expect from a Jaques original.
Thanks, yes. I didn't mention it but I was also a metalworker. I trained as a toolmaker. Mainly on manual centre-lathes, vertical mills and grinders but did my share of making things out of steel, brass and plastics.
I found an ordinary boxwood set and also a wooden set with 4" high kings and 3" high queens. The rooks are about 2" or 2 1/4" and the knights about 2 3/4". Regarding the bishops, the white bishops have the normal slits and the black ones do not. The white K weighs 43 grams and the black K 49 grams. I think they feel single weighted and that might be consistent with a boxwood and ebony set, nearly certainly Victorian but possible early 1920s. Also a Silette plastic set which looks like 1930s or 1940s art deco. I'll take some photos at some stage.
So it might be worth £200 to £250?
<<but the label has been removed from its original box at some time for whatever reason>>
The poor condition of the label indicates that the box it was on was badly damaged or more likely it was just found loose, crumpled and frayed, lying about.
So it might be worth £200 to £250?
Complete in the original box it would be a few thousand. As it is, I believe it sold for £700
I thought it would. I bid a lot at auctions myself but only to get things under the radar. They go crazy over stuff like that. It just takes two people with an obsession.
I've won stuff at online auctions for the past four weeks. Malt whisky for half the price you'd pay in shops. All sorts of things cheap and yet lots worth £200 habitually go for four times that.
Incidentally, that label looks as though it's been taken off something and washed.