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RussBell
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Amen!  We have been trying to convince everyone of this for years.  I have the feeling that they were the ones peeling the paint off the windowsill and eating them!  We were told that even if we fully encapsulated the weights,  there could be a chance they would not be accepted.  Seriously?  

There is no fighting the government. We have to go along with their rules,  however asinine.  When wood chess pieces can be weighted with lead, but plastic chess pieces cannot?

The goal here is to make the best out of a bad situation.  That's all any of us can do.  I can't wait for the CAD drawings to be done because the guys doing it are going to use a 5 axis CNC machine to mill out a couple of sets for us!  I will get to play with one of the new sets WAY before any of you guys!  LOL

 

Thanks for all the support!

Shelby Lohrman

American Chess Equipment

www.amchesseq.com

It should be possible to create a completely and robustly sealed plastic chess piece with a lead weight permanently embedded such that the lead weight cannot be accessed or removed without totally destroying the chess piece in the process.  If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to accomplish such a trivial feat with a plastic chess piece...

kenardi
300000000 wrote:

I am excited for them to be available again.

 me too!

RussBell
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Russ,

But the problem is they cut the piece in half and test it.

 

thanks

Shelby

Is this to imply that lead is not used for any products sold in the USA?  That would seem difficult to believe.  If lead is permitted for some uses/products, what criteria is used to allow it to be used?  That is, what is the loophole that permits its use?  A loophole which could perhaps be exploited to allow its use in chess pieces...

Also to be clear...I am not suggesting to permanently seal lead in chess pieces for the purpose of hiding its use from the authorities.  It would be for the purpose of essentially encasing the lead in the plastic piece such that no one would likely be exposed to it unless they made a purposeful, concerted effort to gain access to the lead, which would certainly involve destroying the piece in the process.  If the plastic used is tough enough, that would not be easy to do unless tools were employed to get inside.  The point being to preclude the possibility of inadvertent exposure to the lead, and render it virtually inaccessible to all but those purposefully determined to get at it.

TundraMike

What Shelby "I Think" is saying if I may take a swing at it is .........When you import or export for that mater there is a code number assigned to the product.  Plastic chess sets come under toys.  Importing toys or even manufacturing them in the USA are NOT allowed to have lead used in them. Doesn't matter that they are inside as far as I know. A kid can always peel off the bottom felt very easily and get at the lead, if coated they can also pick at the coating.  

RussBell
wiscmike wrote:

What Shelby "I Think" is saying if I may take a swing at it is .........When you import or export for that mater there is a code number assigned to the product.  Plastic chess sets come under toys.  Importing toys or even manufacturing them in the USA are NOT allowed to have lead used in them. Doesn't matter that they are inside as far as I know. A kid can always peel off the bottom felt very easily and get at the lead, if coated they can also pick at the coating.  

I understand.  But the point I am making is to seal the lead inside the piece such that it is not accessible in any way other than to cut or saw the piece in half to access it.....that is, a molding/manufacturing process such that the plastic comprising the piece completely surrounds the lead insert......similar, for example, to the process used for golf balls, i.e., in which the center of the ball is encapsulated by the rest of the ball surrounding it...

TundraMike

Shelby when it comes to government regulations in the USA just look at who makes them up.   No critical thinking at all for the most part.  

RussBell
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Russ,

That would imply logic and reason in the testing process.  We are dealing with a government agency here.  Logic is no where to be found and reason is usually out looking for him.  To be brutally honest the kid out have to pry the lead weight out and try to use it as a "Gobstopper" for a couple of years to get lead poisoning from it.  

But the problem is plastic chess pieces are classified as TOYS,  and as such they have the strictest testing standards because it had to do with kids.  I have talked to companies about the molding process you have mentioned.  It is called "Insert Molding."  Even found a place that can do it.  The problem is the testing standards of the US Government.  

Your golf ball parallel is good,  but golf balls are not classified as toys in the eyes of the US Government.

The messed up thing is that wood chess pieces do not have this restriction. Since they are made of wood,  they are not classified as toys.  Weird,  right?

 

thanks

Shelby Lohrman 

I know its probably a shot in the dark, but.....Is it worth contacting a chess-playing congress-person (or perhaps some high-profile person in the chess world) to ask if they could aid in getting the government regulation relating to "insert-molded" plastic chess pieces changed such that they are classified the same as wood chess pieces or golf balls? 

There has to be someone in congress with common sense....

TundraMike
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Russ,

I LOVE the optimism,  but you just used the words "Congress" and "Common sense" in the same paragraph.  You sure you don't want to re-phrase???LOL

 

Shelby  

As you know you are right, plus they would never make an exception for plastic chess sets vs. other items classified as toys since 5 year olds can play with plastic chess pieces.  It's useless and I know hoe can you take a chance even if you get 1K sets in and no challenge all it takes is one report and you would have to recall all the sets no matter if they were 5 years old. not worth the risk , my opinion but hey I am not in the business and competition.  Probably get fined too and Fed fines aren't cheap. 

Of course all the above is my opinion if I had to make the decision.  

RussBell
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Russ,

I LOVE the optimism,  but you just used the words "Congress" and "Common sense" in the same paragraph.  You sure you don't want to re-phrase???LOL

 

Shelby  

Yes....I thought you might get a chuckle out of that.....

Congress and common sense is an apparent oxymoron...

RussBell
wiscmike wrote:
ShelbyLohrman wrote:

Russ,

I LOVE the optimism,  but you just used the words "Congress" and "Common sense" in the same paragraph.  You sure you don't want to re-phrase???LOL

 

Shelby  

As you know you are right, plus they would never make an exception for plastic chess sets vs. other items classified as toys since 5 year olds can play with plastic chess pieces.  It's useless and I know hoe can you take a chance even if you get 1K sets in and no challenge all it takes is one report and you would have to recall all the sets no matter if they were 5 years old. not worth the risk , my opinion but hey I am not in the business and competition.  Probably get fined too and Fed fines aren't cheap. 

Of course all the above is my opinion if I had to make the decision.  

 Yes.  I have to unfortunately concede that you and Shelby are more correct than not about the Feds....!

Arasibo
Eyechess wrote:

Finally there is a voice of reality.

We have been aware of lead poisoning for a great number of years making its removal from paint for instance (Don't chew on that window sill, kid.).

Having lead weights inside chess pieces poses no health risk unless someone can take a chess piece apart and either licks or chews on the soft metal.  Of course there also is a problem if one is hit very accurately with a lead weighted piece.

Most kids that are stupid enough to lick a lead weight cannot get the thing out or are smart enough to play chess anyway.

Plus most sets kids play with have no extra weighting to begin with.

 

I apologize, but do you actually have children? I ask because of the stupid children comment you made, children are by nature curious and constantly experiment with their surroundings, this includes putting things in their mouths, it has nothing to do with intelligence, forgive me for saying but you speak as someone who is looking at this through a grown persons eyes, also tell me you have NEVER seen plastic chess sets with missing weights? When kids are handling pieces they will eventually drop them, find that it rattles and then proceed to find out whats inside, or they will poke holes o remove the felt and when the weight becomes unglued eventually it will fall out.

Eyechess

 First, yes I have children.  I also have run a scholastic chess club for many years.  Currently we have 32 kids in the club I run.

Also, pretty much all sets that children are exposed to are the less expensive, non-weighted plastic sets.  And yes, I'm sorry if your sensibilities are hurt but only a very young child puts everything in their mouths.  And if you are putting a weighted set in front of  a very young child, unsupervised, then shame on you.

All of this is moot anyway, because of our current government restrictions on lead weights in plastic chess pieces.

kenardi
Eyechess wrote:

 First, yes I have children.  I also have run a scholastic chess club for many years.  Currently we have 32 kids in the club I run.

Also, pretty much all sets that children are exposed to are the less expensive, non-weighted plastic sets.  And yes, I'm sorry if your sensibilities are hurt but only a very young child puts everything in their mouths.  And if you are putting a weighted set in front of  a very young child, unsupervised, then shame on you.

All of this is moot anyway, because of our current government restrictions on lead weights in plastic chess pieces.

Ditto! 

Child is synonymous with lacking experience... no need to get sensitive, most kids act "stupid" most of the time, get them in a group and its like stupid on steroids.

Adults should know better, not allowing children to play with what might be considered dangerous.  However, like mentioned earlier, in order for the lead to harm them they would have to remove the lead weight and use it as jawbreaker for some time... hence, stupid!  Plus, kids that are still experimenting by putting everything in their mouths are not playing chess, they do not have the attention span to even learn the game yet...  Why would you give them chessmen to chew on?  I wont comment further on that one...

Our government makes STUPID laws to protect the stupid, example being spill proof gas cans, STUPID!   It is a wonder coffee cups don't require warning labels yet, "WARNING: LIQUID INSIDE MIGHT BE HOT ENOUGH TO BURN USE CUATION!",  although coffee cup labels might be required in California already, not sure.  :-) 

More-hot-coffee-warnings.jpeg

  

Arasibo
Eyechess wrote:

 First, yes I have children.  I also have run a scholastic chess club for many years.  Currently we have 32 kids in the club I run.

Also, pretty much all sets that children are exposed to are the less expensive, non-weighted plastic sets.  And yes, I'm sorry if your sensibilities are hurt but only a very young child puts everything in their mouths.  And if you are putting a weighted set in front of  a very young child, unsupervised, then shame on you.

All of this is moot anyway, because of our current government restrictions on lead weights in plastic chess pieces.

 

I'm not being oversensitive, I just think you are not seeing the whole picture, first is that kids most certainly use weighted sets, maybe not in your club but its a pretty big world bro, second I now know about the lead in chess sets but a lot of people don't, have you ever seen a chess set come with some warning label for the lead weights? I sure as hell haven't and I bet a lot of people are not even aware of the toxicity of lead, and third you don't need to lick lead, just by handling it you get exposed, not as bad as licking but it's there.

Arasibo
kenardi wrote:
Eyechess wrote:

 First, yes I have children.  I also have run a scholastic chess club for many years.  Currently we have 32 kids in the club I run.

Also, pretty much all sets that children are exposed to are the less expensive, non-weighted plastic sets.  And yes, I'm sorry if your sensibilities are hurt but only a very young child puts everything in their mouths.  And if you are putting a weighted set in front of  a very young child, unsupervised, then shame on you.

All of this is moot anyway, because of our current government restrictions on lead weights in plastic chess pieces.

Ditto! 

Child is synonymous with lacking experience... no need to get sensitive, most kids act "stupid" most of the time, get them in a group and its like stupid on steroids.

Adults should know better, not allowing children to play with what might be considered dangerous.  However, like mentioned earlier, in order for the lead to harm them they would have to remove the lead weight and use it as jawbreaker for some time... hence, stupid!  Plus, kids that are still experimenting by putting everything in their mouths are not playing chess, they do not have the attention span to even learn the game yet...  Why would you give them chessmen to chew on?  I wont comment further on that one...

Our government makes STUPID laws to protect the stupid, example being spill proof gas cans, STUPID!   It is a wonder coffee cups don't require warning labels yet, "WARNING: LIQUID INSIDE MIGHT BE HOT ENOUGH TO BURN USE CUATION!",  although coffee cup labels might be required in California already, not sure.  :-) 

 

  

 

Read my above comment, I personally don't care what you think of children but yeah I did roll my eyes on some of your comments, we have to protect children not let them to their own devices and brand them as stupid if they do something they had no idea would bring them harm. What I'm concerned about is lead and I'm amazed how blase some are around here about the issue

I bet your one of those who are glad Trump is destroying the EPA and FDA. Congrats, soon you might get what you wish for.

kenardi

Wow!

 

null

 

Sorry, my mistake.  I guess the government is responsible for our children, not us.  What was I thinking?  My apologies. 

I don't think political Ideology based on party line will ever advance this discussion.  If you enjoy running in circles, enjoy.  I will stop there.

 

RussBell

null

Arasibo
kenardi wrote:

Wow!

 

 

 

Sorry, my mistake.  I guess the government is responsible for our children, not us.  What was I thinking?  My apologies. 

I don't think political Ideology based on party line will ever advance this discussion.  If you enjoy running in circles, enjoy.  I will stop there.

 

 

Of course we are responsible but the government has a role to play, please read my comments carefully. Chess pieces come with no warning of lead, a lot of parents are ignorant about the subject or apparently don't care in which case who protects those children? What fault do they have about that? Under your logic if a child is being abused by their parent then the goverment shouldn't intervene? Children have rights too including the right to be protected from abuse and harm. Imagine if there were NO regulation about lead and you lived in a place where there's lead in the water supply like in Flint Michigan and that were perfectly legal.

Arasibo
RussBell wrote:
 

 

Wow are you seriously comparing lead poisoning to offending a baby? Ok conversation over now.

RussBell
Arasibo wrote:
RussBell wrote:
 

 

Wow are you seriously comparing lead poisoning to offending a baby? Ok conversation over now.

Hallelujah!