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1) c4 d5?

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Expertise87

alexmoore you are correct. Black can take on e4 and not sacrifice a pawn. But most people prefer not to lose a Knight so early in the game for no compensation.

1RedKnight99

Please be relevant, helpful and nice!

What about 2.d4!! transposing into a Queen's Gambit?

einstein99

How about simply saying " It's a retarded response!"

Alexm421
[COMMENT DELETED]
Expertise87
AndyClifton

Well, presumably Black will play 3... c6.

Expertise87

3...c6 also leaves Black down a pawn for no real compensation. White ends up with an extra central pawn, not like the similar 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.c4 c6 where White is ill-advised to take on c6, but here White has two central pawns so it's fine to take.

I was replying to #31 and #41 posts by alexmoore421, he claimed in #31 that Black could play 3...Nxe4.

AndyClifton

Aha.  Well, I see some compensation for Black...but certainly hanging your knight is not the way to go about things. Smile

jcm1978

It may be bad for Black, but I almost lost to it today!

Cryomancer

It's pretty clear that black shouldn't recapture with the queen. What I was probably going to do if I was black was 1)c4 d5 2)cxd5 e6 3)dxe6 Bxe6. Now black's a pawn down and has no central pawns, we all see that, but take a look at white's development, it has done nothing, and in the meantime black has developed a bishop and unblocked the other one, sounds playable to me. 

ghostofmaroczy

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

MetalRatel
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

Black is essentially playing a Smith-Morra Gambit a tempo down.

1.c4 d5 2.cxd5 Nf6 3.d4 c6 transposes to a version of this gambit in the Marshall Defense of the QGD. This is probably better for Black, as the d4 pawn is a target and White seems to have a slight advantage. However, 3.Nf3 bypasses this and may allow White to accept the gambit under more favorable circumstances.

ghostofmaroczy
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

Black is essentially playing a Smith-Morra Gambit a tempo down.

You're obviously not very well versed in the power of Evil.

MetalRatel
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

Black is essentially playing a Smith-Morra Gambit a tempo down.

You're obviously not very well versed in the power of Evil.

Well everyone knows the Morra wins by force, so obviously Black has to be at least clearly better. :P

Can you show me how Black is not playing a Morra gambit without looking silly against typical Sicilian moves?

A funny thing is the score for 3.dxc6 is a lame 42.9% in the Chessbase database. However, when you look at the stats, there are only 14 games (out of only 20 games with 2...c6) and only one person with the White pieces having a rating >2200.

ghostofmaroczy
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

Black is essentially playing a Smith-Morra Gambit a tempo down.

You're obviously not very well versed in the power of Evil.

Allow me to relate Evil to Metals.

Zinc has a complete set of ten electrons in the d orbitals.

But Zinc is nowhere near Noble.

MetalRatel
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
MetalRatel wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

1 c4 d5 2 cxd5 c6 is the Vector Gambit.  3 dxc6 Nxc6 is powerful for Black.

Black is essentially playing a Smith-Morra Gambit a tempo down.

You're obviously not very well versed in the power of Evil.

Allow me to relate Evil to Metals.

Zinc has a complete set of ten electrons in the d orbitals.

But Zinc is nowhere near Noble.

Heh, you're a gas.

TheMsquare

If Black doesn't play 1.c4 d5 then he is in danger of being strategically worse for the rest of the game .. simple as that. 

Sure a center pawn for a bishop pawn is maybe a nice deal for white but in reality no English opening player wants black to put anything on d5. That's why they play 1.c4 and not 1.e4 .. duuuh .. well anyways i don't care what the old stockfish silicon junk says nor Leela not alpha zero or whatever other GM or world champion has to say about it if 1.c4 and the reply is not 1..d5 white is already getting a edge out of his opening anyway. Right from move 1. Thank you very much I won't devulge the reasons I have for this assessment

Steven-ODonoghue
TheMsquare wrote:

Thank you very much I won't devulge the reasons I have for this assessment

I think a doctor is the only person who could divulge the reason you came to that assessment.

sansuk
TheMsquare schreef:

If Black doesn't play 1.c4 d5 then he is in danger of being strategically worse for the rest of the game .. simple as that. 

Sure a center pawn for a bishop pawn is maybe a nice deal for white but in reality no English opening player wants black to put anything on d5. That's why they play 1.c4 and not 1.e4 .. duuuh .. well anyways i don't care what the old stockfish silicon junk says nor Leela not alpha zero or whatever other GM or world champion has to say about it if 1.c4 and the reply is not 1..d5 white is already getting a edge out of his opening anyway. Right from move 1. Thank you very much I won't devulge the reasons I have for this assessment

Right ! You have to play what you like. I am not good in English and I prefer active piece play in an open center. There is also the psychologic effect, White is already out of his normal repertoire and has to find the opening moves himself. 

Chan_Fry

I admit that I've often pre-moved 1...d5 as black, because it works against 1.d4, gives me a Scandinavian against 1.e4, and is fine against 1.Nf3, 1.b3, and other first moves. I face the English so rarely that I never know what to do, so 1...d5 shows up sometimes.