1. E4 2. Nc6

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Avatar of pawnpusher2016

Why doesn't any play this opening? My record playing it as black is 4-0 in tournaments.

Avatar of pestebalcanica
Avatar of pestebalcanica
4.d4 e5
2.f4 a6!? 3.d4 d5
Avatar of poucin

I wonder why top GM never plays it if you can score 100% with it...

If u want to continue to play it, don't care about pestebalcanica's lines which are really strange...

There is also another problem : playing it gives u narrow repertoire and is not ideal to improve your play...

Avatar of poucin

i don't think we can consider this opening passive.

There are some tricks, specially with a queen sac, like this variation, maybe not correct but hard to defend on the board...

 

Avatar of pestebalcanica
passivity is not a problem
Avatar of pfren
poucin wrote:

I wonder why top GM never plays it if you can score 100% with it...

If u want to continue to play it, don't care about pestebalcanica's lines which are really strange...

There is also another problem : playing it gives u narrow repertoire and is not ideal to improve your play...

#4 is of course junk, but #2 is quite good: Whatever advantage white has after 4...Nb8! is largely symbolic.

Avatar of pestebalcanica

 1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 e5 4. dxe5 d4 5. Nd5 f5 6. exf6 Nxf6 7. Bg5 ( Bc4!? ) Nxd5 8. Bxd8 Bb4+ 9. Ke2 ( Qd2!?) Nf4+ 10. Kf3 O-O 11.Bc4+ Kh8 12.Bxc7 Nd3 13. Ke2 Nxb2 14. Qc1 Nxc4 15. Nf3 b6 16. Kf1 Bc3 17. h4 Bg4 18. Rb1 Rae8 19. Qg5 Rxf3 20. gxf3 Nd2+ 21. Qxd2 Bxd2 22. fxg4 etc.

 1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 Qxd5 4. Nc3 Qd8 5. d4 Nf6 6. Bb5 e6 7. O-O Bb4 8. Bd3 ( Bg5!?) 0-0 9. Ne4 Be7

of course

Avatar of pestebalcanica

Unfortunately it doesn't really matter what you think, but it does what everyone else wants it to be. Our inability to connect what seems illogical, to unite and to defy logic in our understanding keeps us from enlightenment.



Avatar of SuirenBoid
Smnrkssn wrote:

2. Nf3 is really discouraging to face when playing this opening. In which case black doesn't really have anything better than 2...e5. Which gives 1...Nc6 little independent value. While in a tournament you need to deal with the risk of getting an opponent who heavily prepares 2. d4.

It is true that Nf3 is a bit of a fly in the Nc6 soup in terms of original positions. However it is still possible to play a few ideas to keep things fresh. The old system of d6,Nf6 & Bg4 intending e5 or e6 is still played and was championed by Miles and Mestrovic, d6, Nf6, g6 leads to the dark knight pirc as recommended in the Dark Knight System and is perfectly sound, d5 is also an interesting option, there is a video on chess.com on this system called the Modern Nimzowitsch i seem to remember. So it is possible to stay in the sphere of Nc6 rather than transposing into e4,e5 albeit avoiding the kings gambit. Play 1...Nc6 recommends 2 Nf6 which leads to Alekhine style positions that are not to my liking but again I am sure they are sound if a little ugly. 

Avatar of SuirenBoid
tob1a5 wrote:

It's not in the nature of the Nimzowitsch defence to be aggressive early on.

The Nimzowitsch defence is very aggressive early on mate! in the d5 lines black often sacs a pawn or castles long and launches a kingside attack, and in the e5 Kevitz lines black also tends to launch a quick kingside attack or blows up the centre. If White plays stereotypically or inaccurately then he can succumb very quickly indeed

Avatar of aljekhins_knife

I play 2.Nc3 to avoid all this, and if Black wants to transpose into the Vienna with 2...e5, I have decades of experience with it so it suits me.  An independent line arises after 2...Nf6 (2...e6 is also possible) 3.d4 d5 4.e5 when either 4...Ne4, 4...Ng8!? or 4...Nfd7 seem playable:



Avatar of SuirenBoid

d6 is also possible in this position leading to a Dark Knight Pirc mate

Avatar of pestebalcanica

Relying on tactics? Again, the Vienna game poses no real dangers to a well prepared opponent.

Avatar of poucin

" the Vienna game poses no real dangers to a well prepared opponent."

Not so simple.

In your line, 7.Bg5 is better than f4...

Anyway, black has no problem on all openings if he knows what he is doing...
Ruy Lopez is supposed to be the serious opening to pose problems, but black has many replies to obtain an acceptable position.
Vienna is a reliable choice, where white has choice with some variations : g3, f4, Bc4, etc...
Transposition into 4 knights game is possible too, which is also a respectable choice.
The idea is not to get an advantage, but to get a position u like.
Here it is the point of 2.Nc3's aljekhins_knife and it can be very efficient gainst Nimzowitch specialist who would like to play a game like the one i copied below (with the queen sac).
Avatar of aljekhins_knife
pestebalcanica wrote:

 the Vienna game poses no real dangers to a well prepared opponent.

An opponent well-prepared for the Vienna, ROTFLMAO.  Since switching back to the Vienna from the Spanish a week ago, I can tell NOBODY is prepared, they start thinking on move 2.

Avatar of aljekhins_knife
poucin wrote:

Vienna is a reliable choice, where white has choice with some variations : g3, f4, Bc4, etc...
Transposition into 4 knights game is possible too, which is also a respectable choice.
The idea is not to get an advantage, but to get a position u like.
Here it is the point of 2.Nc3's aljekhins_knife

There are two more 3rd move choices in the Vienna after 2...Nf6:

  • 3.Nc3 (this is the one that can transpose into the Four Knights)
  • 3.a3

I prefer 3.f4, very few opponents play the most challenging 3...d5 and even if they do, White still has the choices after 4.fxe5 Nxe4:

  • 5.Nf3
  • 5.Qf3!?
  • 5.d3?!
Avatar of pestebalcanica
poucin wrote:

" the Vienna game poses no real dangers to a well prepared opponent."

Not so simple.

In your line, 7.Bg5 is better than f4...

 
Anyway, black has no problem on all openings if he knows what he is doing...
Ruy Lopez is supposed to be the serious opening to pose problems, but black has many replies to obtain an acceptable position.
Vienna is a reliable choice, where white has choice with some variations : g3, f4, Bc4, etc...
Transposition into 4 knights game is possible too, which is also a respectable choice.
The idea is not to get an advantage, but to get a position u like.
Here it is the point of 2.Nc3's aljekhins_knife and it can be very efficient gainst Nimzowitch specialist who would like to play a game like the one i copied below (with the queen sac).



Avatar of pestebalcanica

2...e6?! is kind of passive and f7-f6 does not give enough counterplay, and it is somewhat weakening the king.

Avatar of poucin
pestebalcanica a écrit :

2...e6?! is kind of passive and f7-f6 does not give enough counterplay, and it is somewhat weakening the king.

Once again, u seem to know the truth about something not so simple...

1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e6!? can transpose into Nc6 french after 3.d4 d5 4.Nc3 or Guimard variation of Tarrash on 4.Nd2.

Modern theory considers french Nc6 as acceptable.

White can avoid it playing a strange advance variation, with some really weird manoeuvres, for examples :

Passive? I don't know, it is just another way to play than usual openings, why not?
U can see than weakening the king is not really relevant here...