1 e4 d5 2 anything other than exd5

Till now i didnt saw any convincing refutation, where White is lost by force, so maybe the worst that can happen is, that black is getting maybe a =+ position on a full board with absolut perfect play from both sides.

But this is theoretical, cause in a practical match, that never happened to me. For sure i lost matches in the BDG, but i never got out of the opening with a lost positon.

So that isnt scaring me too much... 

Thats what ive said before...personally i like the Teichmann, the Vienna or Euwe variations a lot more than the Bogo, because its really complicating for both sides, in other variations its easier to play for attack, because the attack plans are straight forward. In the Bogo black has lots of counterplay and isnt forced to stay passive and hold the pawn, hoping to survive the middlegame.

Hey Pfren!

Thanks for the advice...as i only have the Scheerer book, he only mentioned 10...e6 as a sideline and after 11.Rad1 he only gave 11...Bxf3 instead of yours 11...Ne7, which looks pretty good concerning the d5 and f5 squares and to give the knight a more active position on the kingside than on c6.

Dark Falcon 

Yes, you are right, i havent mentioned 9...Rb8...

What happens after i take on a7 or pin the knight on c6?

A good move, but not better than 9...Bxc2 or Bd6.

Position will be still equal as in the other options, but iam only an amateur, so maybe you can show me the whole line with Rb8, which looks quite interesting.

I'm quite surprised he doesn't mention the plan. It's not new... GM Michele Godena introduced it some 15 years ago, and it has been played in a few correspondence games- with disastrous results for White. Actually white managed to score half a point out of 4 games, when in a corr. game Black destroyed a pretty good advantage by a couple of weak moves...

I think what Pfren is saying is correct.

I think 5...g6 is a killer.

The black position is not as hard as one may think it is.

The first 8 moves by black are actually normal moves when you really look at them.

For example:

I think the move which can be tough to find for black is 9...Bg4.

Black might get worried about Bh6.

However, in this position Bh6 doesn't work because of a tactic.

If white plays the move 10.Bh6

Black can play 10...Bxh6 11.Qxh6 after which take the knight on f3 with the Light square.

Yeah I always found the move 9...Bg4 as the hardest move for black to find.

I mean techinically speaking I think the idea is to take out the knight on f3 and win the d4 pawn.

Which is why I think Bg4 is being played.

However, I will admit I have sometimes tryed 9...Bf5.

Which might been seen as an inaccuracy.

However, I liked the idea of winning the c2 pawn lol.

I think black is got a slight edge in those positions.

I don't think white has enough compensation.

However, I will be the first to admit.

I have been crushed by the Qh4 - Bh6 - Ng5  idea.

Black can not get to relaxed.

It can be deadly.

If you don't want to play the mainline you can deviate at move 7 or 8.

You can try 7.Ne5

Which I think looks scary lol.

I think black can get a nice position out of it as well.

However, it sure does add more pressure than 7.0-0.

The other move which I think has been played happens at move 8.

8.Kh1

Yeah I never looked at them with great detail to be honest.

Simply because I never played the white side of the line.

However, maybe they are different alternative lines you can try if you feel like shaking things up or giving a surpise.

So much stuff to explore in the BDG :D

But sorry, mate, 10.Bh6 is just too dumb,even a blind man without much chess knowledge will see the combination youve showed.

So no one is playing 10.Bh6 which loses by force.

Main line is 10.Be3, where Pfren shows a really convincing variation (which is a novelty for me).

Alternative is 10.Ne2.

@Pfren: What about these 10th move? As far as i know you, i will get a quick refutation :D

7.Ne5 looks quite funny, never thought about that move, but in an OTB game this might be a good surprise against a well prepared opponent.

The BDG is tons of theory, cause both white and black have many paths to go and its really inbalanced, which makes it a fascinating and controversial opening.

No I didn't say white is forced to play Bh6.

I was simply demonstrating how the position has some tactics involving a Qd4+ which can pick up the loose bishop on c4.

I did this as a way of showing how Kh1 is sometimes played at move 8 to avoid such things.

Dark Falcon   I am not saying the line with 1. d4  d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. e4 dxe4

5. f3  Bf5 is the very best line against the Blackmar Deimer Gambit--am just saying Black gets a clear advantage.

Here is one example:

In Ponzi's line, white could (and probably should) play 7.Qxf5. Peter Leisebein has tried it in a few corr. games as white with good results.

On the Bogoljubov variation, 10.Ne2 looks not being a solution for white after the blunt 10...h5- Black fortifies the g4 bishop, and is ready to harass Bc4 by ...Na5. Black had two easy wins in two recent CC games.

Does the "absolute truth" has any meaning in class encounters? Unlikely... the stronger player will win, even from a worse position.

But the truth is that currently the BDG is not in a good shape, and  would expect from a good book author to disclaim that (like Smurfo did in his excellent recent Scandinavian book).

Ponzis line seems to be quite convincing, but 7.Qxf5 isnt any better cause of 7...e6! with the option 8.Qf3 Qh4+ or 8.Qg4 f5 and in both lines i dont see many persepectives for White...

And thanks for providing an example in the 10.Ne2 move order of the Bogo-Main line...

But iam really astonished, that youve stated "Does the "absolute truth" has any meaning in class encounters? Unlikely... the stronger player will win, even from a worse position."

This is what i always tell the unsound opening-bashers...maybe perfect theory is important on master level, but not on class level.

Karel also pointed out, that gambit players wouldnt play their "crap openings" if it would be so easy to exploit the weaknesses of these openings, but reality is, that most class players dont waste their time with studying the best lines of the Latvian or BDG or similar openings, which they met once or twice in their chess lifetime. So most them are totally unprepared, when they face such an opening OTB. I wonder even more,that i also rarely face an opponent in CC games, who plays critical lines or even refutations like the one Ponz and Pfren showed in this thread.

Anyway its fun to discuss these lines with experts, who not only state "its crap", but show critical move orders for both sides.

Ok, got you, but these forced loss is so obvious, that you didnt had to show it :-) 

8.Kh1 isnt an enlightenment for this line, but probably a good deviation from the main line.

It depends how unsound. The BDG might be slightly unsound, but compared to the Latvian and Halloween gambits it's not that crazy. Some pawn gambits are sound even if they aren't great, like the Smith Morra, Benko, Marshall(any of them), even the Geller and Albin gambits aren't too horrible.

Perhaps we can throw in the King's Gambit? 

The kings gambit too, even though I quit playing it due to not finding a good answer to 3..Nf6 in the 3.Nf3 variation. I lost a game in 10 moves with white here and never recovered!

Can we throw out the Smith Morra Gambit also? [said by someone who has played and done well with this line against all he has played in the 2200 to 2400 USCF range]

Have to say [after playing the Smith Morra for decades] that it may not be sound... 

Sorry, Ken, RIP

I do not think that white is risking much in the Morra... probably easy equality for Black in several lines, but no more than that.

So, I disagree with pfren and Avrukh on this one point... 

What you simply dont get is, that not all players have talent or knowledge like you have...i dont feel comfortable in many of the standard openings, iam a woodpusher (as Pfren called me in the past), i like to throw my pieces at the enemy king and hope to get through with it, if i win its ok, if i lose, i dont care about.

I dont have targets to achieve in chess, its only a hobby and when i meet a well prepared opponent at the board while playing the Soller Gambit (1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 f6) then i have bad luck and thats it.

Personally i have more success and fun in chess since i play this stuff and as long as i dont lose every game, i will continue to play crappy openings.

In lower or middle levels nearly every kind of opening is playable, maybe except of the Bongcloud or the Fred, because as Pfren stated, in the end the better player will win most of the times, regardless which opening you choose.