Keilhack's book Knight on the Left is delightful, wittily written and full of interesting ideas. But it didn't convince me that the main Van Geet line 1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 d4 is good for White.
1.Nc3 and Why Isn't it Played more?
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Jun 11, 2020
0
#43
FrogCDE wrote:
Keilhack's book Knight on the Left is delightful, wittily written and full of interesting ideas. But it didn't convince me that the main Van Geet line 1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 d4 is good for White.
which line dissuaded you? its a very good book, but it was released many years ago, and in the maze of lines, improvements can lurk about.
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
5...nc6 is a mess if black plays it right. a Rapport-esque position for sure
if you want to avoid this clusterF , you can play the natural d3 instead of nf3 .
None of those 3 moves/infos helped white
darkunorthodox88 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
darkunorthodox88 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
darkunorthodox88 έγραψε:
5...nc6 is a mess if black plays it right. a Rapport-esque position for sure
In pure positional terms, white's problem piece is the f1 bishop, hence 5.c3 a6! is the most consistent approach.
very interesting, i never seen 5...a6 here before, but im not quite convinced yet.
they are ton of possible sidelines to the black plan i suggested so i would welcome suggestions and improvements, but i dont think 5...a6 is problematic, white just changes plans. Very strangely the engine seems to solidly prefer white slightly in these lines (more than i imagined actually).
* meant 10. qc3 looks fine here.
I have no less than 50 games with 5...a6, so this is hardly new. 48 of them from ICCF and IECG/LSS, and a couple OTB, one of them featuring Sveshnikov Junior as Black.
The line you are trying to analyse has been played already in 20 correspondence games, with white scoring just 21%.
I already don't like your 6.cxd4, and I think that white should postpone this capture for a more appropriate time. I think white's best play is featured here, although Black was just great after the opening phase.
fair enough, although the game you showed with bb4 nd2?! is hardly instructive given the rating disparity and i think white can certainly improve his play.
the 21% score is disheartening i must confess though. Im gonna have to do some further tinkering in these lines, maybe look at some correspondence database too
have you looked at 5.nf3 f6 6.b3!? by any chance?
I have not looked to any of these lines in depth.
Smurfo in his book decorates 5.c3 a6 with an exclam mark, and I agree.
He also gives the line 5.Nf3 f6 6.b3 Nc6 7.Bc4 Bxc4 8.bxc4 d3! as better for Black.
7.Bb5 does not combine well with b3, either, as whenever he plays d2-d3 he will create some nasty queenside dark-squared weaknesses. See this one:
Time forfeit, but the final position is hopeless for white.
I've played 1. Nc3 a number of times, and won with it. However, that might just be because a lot of people don't know what to do against it.
Just because something isn't popular doesn't mean that it isn't good. The Sicilian Defence wasn't always as popular as it is today, for example.
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
FrogCDE wrote:
Keilhack's book Knight on the Left is delightful, wittily written and full of interesting ideas. But it didn't convince me that the main Van Geet line 1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 d4 is good for White.
which line dissuaded you? its a very good book, but it was released many years ago, and in the maze of lines, improvements can lurk about.
Unfortunately I don't have my copy any more - I got rid of my books on openings I no longer play when I moved to a smaller house recently. But it was the line where White sacs a piece for some pawns and some very complex play that needed a lot of memorizing. As far as I could see that was White's main option and it didn't look inviting.
May 18, 2023
0
#51
I recently started a correspondence game and was confronted with 1. Nc3. So I looked for some information on this perculiar move and came here. I see a lot of discussions going on in the past on the validity of this opening. However, long story short, if Black doesn't want to enter into White's opening, should he not simply choose his own answer, by transposing either into the Caro-Kann, French, or Sicilian!? As in.... make it your own preferred battlefield, instead of that of White's choice! I have opted to transpose into the French, with which I like to play with Black.
It's not particularly good because it ties white down rather.
I used to play the closed scandinavian by transposition (1. Nc3 d5 2. E4) but i couldn’t really find good responses against be6. So after d5 i’d rather go for d4 and play the jobava london or the veresov attack, both are fine for white.
Against e5 the best move is 2. Nf3. 2. Nf3 is a very strong move for white which is the reason e5 is actually a weak response against 1. Nc3
Against c5 you can play 2. E4 and transpose to a closed sicilian but you can also play 2. Nf3 and aim for a transposition to an open sicilian
Against nf6 i think 2. E4 is best
Against e5 the best move is 2. Nf3. 2. Nf3 is a very strong move for white which is the reason e5 is actually a weak response against 1. Nc3
Against c5 you can play 2. E4 and transpose to a closed sicilian but you can also play 2. Nf3 and aim for a transposition to an open sicilian
Against nf6 i think 2. E4 is best
May 27, 2023
0
#54
Poweranony wrote:
I used to play the closed scandinavian by transposition (1. Nc3 d5 2. E4) but i couldn’t really find good responses against be6. So after d5 i’d rather go for d4 and play the jobava london or the veresov attack, both are fine for white.
Against e5 the best move is 2. Nf3. 2. Nf3 is a very strong move for white which is the reason e5 is actually a weak response against 1. Nc3
Against c5 you can play 2. E4 and transpose to a closed sicilian but you can also play 2. Nf3 and aim for a transposition to an open sicilian
Against nf6 i think 2. E4 is best
Against e5 the best move is 2. Nf3. 2. Nf3 is a very strong move for white which is the reason e5 is actually a weak response against 1. Nc3
Against c5 you can play 2. E4 and transpose to a closed sicilian but you can also play 2. Nf3 and aim for a transposition to an open sicilian
Against nf6 i think 2. E4 is best
easiest solution , c3, (first to allow qf3 if d3) nf3, bb5 ,d3,and regroup via ba4 and bb3.
5...nc6 is a mess if black plays it right. a Rapport-esque position for sure
In pure positional terms, white's problem piece is the f1 bishop, hence 5.c3 a6! is the most consistent approach.
very interesting, i never seen 5...a6 here before, but im not quite convinced yet.
they are ton of possible sidelines to the black plan i suggested so i would welcome suggestions and improvements, but i dont think 5...a6 is problematic, white just changes plans. Very strangely the engine seems to solidly prefer white slightly in these lines (more than i imagined actually).
* meant 10. qc3 looks fine here.
I have no less than 50 games with 5...a6, so this is hardly new. 48 of them from ICCF and IECG/LSS, and a couple OTB, one of them featuring Sveshnikov Junior as Black.
The line you are trying to analyse has been played already in 20 correspondence games, with white scoring just 21%.
I already don't like your 6.cxd4, and I think that white should postpone this capture for a more appropriate time. I think white's best play is featured here, although Black was just great after the opening phase.
fair enough, although the game you showed with bb4 nd2?! is hardly instructive given the rating disparity and i think white can certainly improve his play.
the 21% score is disheartening i must confess though. Im gonna have to do some further tinkering in these lines, maybe look at some correspondence database too
have you looked at 5.nf3 f6 6.b3!? by any chance?