1.d4 e6!? ... have you ever seen this variation?

lol, you are playing a game man, not constructing mathematical proofs.  If I'm happy to play the french after 1.e4, I'm not that bothered after 1.d4 e6 2e4.

Yes, there is general agreement that QGD, Sicilian, French etc. are respectable openings. It's a matter of preference how you constrain your opponents' options.

Your assertion that White can go down 'any' of the QG lines after 1.d4 e6 is false.  Black can avoid ...d5 against various White options if he chooses.  For instance

• 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 is a Dutch, where White's more violent Anti-Dutches that don't involve c2-c4 have been taken away.
• 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 may reach a Sicilian or English, either after 3.d4 cxd4 or 3.c4 cxd4.  Instead White can play 3.c3 or 3.e3 but he's getting a pretty quiet position after either of these.
• 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Bb4+ is possible with some independent paths if Black omits/delays ..Nf6.
• 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 is simply a QGD - but Black might be happy because White can no longer choose a system with Nge2.
• 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 doesn't have as much point as against 1...d5 as Black hasn't weakened e5 yet.

So you see, 1.d4 e6 is quite a flexible response.  The only downside is that Black must be willing to defend the French.

wraths, when a person plays a French.... this is ridiculous. How can black have an "advantage" because white "doesn't know" if he's going to play the sicilian or ruy lopez, that's not even straight thinking. We're talking about whether a move is good or not and what the other player can play. When was that last time a gm started saying he had the "advantage" of the other player not knowing what he would soon play? 

In my view what wraths is saying is nonsense. 

I know there are many subtle move order changes that can puzzle the greatest names in the game, this is not one of those arguments.  

You keep reading messages backwards. Of course WHITE has an advantage because BLACK played in my opinion not very good e6!

No wonder I can't understand what you are saying at all.

Talking about what players can play, WHITE has an advantage precisely because WHITE can play more lines than usual and BLACK can play less lines than usual (as no matter what black plays next it must be a e6 setup)

I need to adjust my statements slightly:

1. d4 Nf6. White goes down any of the QG lines. (Normal)

1. d4 e6. White goes down restricted OG lines, or go into a French. (Better for WHITE, or worse for BLACK)

As black cannot go into a Slav, or to a lesser extent, Chigorin or QGA.

As for GreenCastleBlock comments, it is well taken. I am thinking that black may be "too flexible" and will need to know a lot of different openings and probably at the end not to black's benefit.

e6-Be7 is what I premove in bullet.

Uhohspaghettio1 is wrong and you are right.

However, you are wrong and GreenCastleBlock is right.

GreenCastleBlock > wrathss > Uhohspaghettio1

I believe people are over thinking this. After the following move's 1.d4  e6

White is flexible.

And

Black is flexible.

You guys are bringing up strange assumption's. After the move 2.e4 by white. White is not guaranteed a French.

Black does not have to play 2...d5 

It is Black's move and he can play 2...c5 , 2...b6, 2...a6.

Black can even go crazy and play for a Hack Attack with 2...h5

You guys are agrueing about a mysterious French line that is being played from the move's 1.d4 e6.

That's fair.  You would have to have pretty wide knowledge to put 1.d4 e6 on the board, in order to take full advantage of the transpositions that Black has.  It may not be for everyone.  I think 1.Nf3 e6! is a nice move to play on move 1 as well, but it is largely a personal choice.  The first move is only as good as the preparation that you have behind it.

X_J_X White is not guaranteed a French after 2.e4 but I'd imagine most players above a certain level would be pleased to see any of those alternatives over the board.. 2...d5 is objectively the strongest move and it's not even close.

@X PLAYER JX Right because 1. e4 e6 2. d4 h5 and 1. e4 e6 2. d4 a6 are such great openings!

After 1. e4 e6 2. d4, black's only real move is d5, and c5 also isn't that bad. Everything else is pretty bad.

1.d4 e6 2.e4 is the French. 1.e4 e6 is already the French, you've transposed to it.

2...c5 is equal as strong so no its not objectively the strongest move.

Its a choice and their are plenty of choice's.

No move order matter's.

1.e4 e6 is the French

and

1.e4 e6 2.d4  is the French

However,

1.d4 e6  is not a French

and

1.d4 e6 e4  is not a French it may look similar to a French but it still yet undeterminded becuase the move orders are different.

You can't call a Wolf a Dog just becuase it looks similar to a Dog

Wait..

1. e4 e6 is the French. The French by definition consist of exactly 2 moves.

1. d4 e6 is not a French

1. d4 e6 e4 is a transposed French because white played e4, so we have a french strcture. It doesn't just look similar to a French, it is a French transposed by a different move order.

It is the same puzzle just put together in a different way. Like how would you call this 1. d4 e6 2.e4 opening? Would you call it undefined? or would you like "queen's pawn, french defense"?

A dog is a dog no matter how it came about right?

I know what your trying to do. Your trying to show its the same position with different move's. However, it is still yet undefined.

It is not considered a tranposition into the French yet. 2...d5 has to be played for that to happen. If you want to disagree than go for it.

I honestly don't mind or care. I didn't make the names of the line's. I'm just telling you those are the wrong move's and you can't call it that yet.

The above position is called the French with those move order's

The below position is not called the French with those move order's

I didn't make the chess name pal don't shot the messenger lol.

French Defense/Normal Variation ECO   C00  1.e4 e6 2.d4

Go search for the ECO code that shows 1.d4 e6 2.e4  as the French

you will not find such code becuase it does not exist.

A chess player will know this position looks similar to a French but they technically can not get away with calling it a French.

How is that fair? Don't go halfway with him just to appease him. 

Black can play 1. ...e6 and if white plays 1. ...e4 we have a French, which black already knows and likes because it's his main response to 1. e4. Knowing two major defences (one for traditional 1. e4 and one for traditional 1. d4) is termed "flexible"? 

If white plays 2. c4 black can play QGD, or Nimzo-Indian. No other move by white will need specialist knowledge. Could there be anything more simple possible in chess?  

So everything he said or suggested in his posts is wrong. There's no two ways about it or clauses, it's clear as daylight. You can't just come online and start spouting vague stuff that sounds about right and people tend to agree to be nice when it's not. Look how much time x_player_j spends in his supposed "analysis", and some players may take it at face value and try to learn from it.  

Him and x_player_j seem to have confused and vague thinking, including thinking if you arrive at a position the same way that there are different advantages or disadvantages on the board depending on how you arrived to it. I know they won't accept that out loud because that's clearly absurd, but they seem to use it as part of their thinking about move orders. That or the considering the supposed "advantage" of the other side "not knowing what you're going to play"... even though you could play them anyway and will have to choose one move. 

After  1d4  e6   2 e4  d5  it is a french , to say its a french before black plays his second move is a mistake . 

1 d4 e6  2e4 c5 and we will get a benoni or sicilian or various other openings depending on the next few moves ..

1d4 e6 2 e4  b6 will be either an english defense or owens defense . 

I play both 1 e4 and 1 d4 as white , I may play 1 d4 against an opponent who seems to know a certain variation of the sicilian better than me but if he plays 1... e6  and he isnt a french player I will certainly play 2 e4 and hope for a french , but as pointed out he may play something other than french . 

Any transposition into another opening is techinically that same opening...

This is what Wrathsss said no matter what black plays next it must be a e6 setup

You are the only one confused. Wrathsss statement isn't vague thinking it makes perfect sense. If black plays 1...e6 he must play a e6 setup. Otherwise he just wasted his time in playing that move.

Their is nothing confusing or vague about what he said. It is simple logic.

The part I highlighted in blue show's your lack of understanding. It does matter.

Example

In the below position.

If you play 1.e4. Your opponent has alot of options they can play 1...e5, 1...c6, 1...e6, 1...c5 as example's.

If you like playing against the French(1...e6) and Sicilian(1...c5) thats great for you. Thats what you love doing and you have good score against them that great.

The problem is:

What if you hate facing the Caro-kann(1...c6) or The King pawn game(1...e5)

What if you have a terrible score against those lines. Obviously as a chess player you are going to want to play positions favorable to you. In this situation you can't avoid them becuase they are major lines against 1.e4.

So instead you decide to play another line completely 1.d4 so you don't have to deal with them as much.

In this situation your opponent plays 1...e6 giving you the chance to play 2...e4 trying to get into a French still not a French yet. The position is different and its favorable to you becuase you get to play against a set up similar to the French with out having deal with other mainline response against 1.e4.

In this situation they can not play 2...e5 after they played 1...e6? it would be dumb.

An also playing 1...e6  than 2...c6  is considered dumb as well its not a Caro-Kann.

You are limiting what they are responding with.

So your statement below demonstrates that.

including thinking if you arrive at a position the same way that there are different advantages or disadvantages

You have the advantage/luxury of trying to get into a French Defence position which is still not yet defined yet. With out having the disadvantage of dealing with all the other mainline response against 1.e4

It makes perfect sense in the world if you do not understand it than their is something wrong with you.

Every  heard of any of the 10000 books that are chess openings? Or how about google? 

^^ An that is why Reb is a Title player. He gets payed the Big Buck's.

After 2...d5 its the French before 2...d5 the position is undefined thats what I been saying.

Thank you for confirming Reb.