alexlaw wrote:
c3 seems like a good idea.
but it's kind of getting obvious to me 3. d4 isn't the best move.
time to investigate 3. c3
I`m still awaiting for recommendations against 1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Bd6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4.
_
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I`m working on position after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Bd6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Be5 6. Nf3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 Nf6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Re8 10. Re1 d5 11. exd5 Rxe1+ 12. Qxe1 Qxd5 13. c4 Qd6
Speaking on 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Bd6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Nc6 5.0-0 Qe7 - White can play 6.e5! because taking on e5 leads to big trouble.
After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Bd6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Be5 6. Nf3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 Nf6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Re8 10. Re1 d5 11. exd5 Rxe1+ 12. Qxe1 Qxd5 13. c4 Qd6 I`m considering 14.Rb1!? which might be the best way to more than small advantage.
Also 14. h3 seems to be not bad and after 14...Nb4 (mentioned by strateg and probably the best) 15.Bb2 Nxd3 16.cxd3 Bf5 17.Rd1 White seems to have slightly better position, because white bishop is more dangerous (keeping pressure on diagonal a1-h8) than black one.
alexlaw wrote:
Didn't see that e5 sac, and I assumed you checked it with rybka or something else and it's bad for black.
i'm out of ideas already.
which means
e4 e5 nf3 bd6 exd4 bc4 c5!? c3 nc6 must be played.
Castling and early e5 push (exploiting bishop`s position on d6) is main idea of 4.Bc4,. :)
4...c5 can`t be serious as after 5.c3 white is getting back pawn leaving black with isolated d pawn.
alexlaw wrote:
probably nb4 is an engine move, since strategy usually plays inaccurate stuff. from a human point of view, i wouldn't play that because it undoubles your pawns and helps your semi-weird bishop.
i prefer something like bd7 and re8.
kramnik style
play for a draw.
Nb4 has a point to exchange good bishop and weak pawn on d3 which can be fixed after black has played c5.
And please don`t lie, telling that you dont use engine to analyse these lines, as most moves recommended by you are 1st choices of Houdini.
alexlaw wrote:
e4 e5 nf3 bd6 exd4 bc4 c5!? c3 nc6 cxd4 cxd4 nxd4 nf6 e.g. nc3, nxd4 followed by qc7 be5 and d6. or be5 instead of nxd4.
anyhow, white is better for sure, but not too clear (yet).
Not too clear? With such a weak d-pawn (without any compensation for it) it`s obvious that white has better position.
1) After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Bd6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Nc6 (1st choice of Houdini 4...c5 was 2nd) 5.0-0
5...Qe7 was 1st choice of Houdini and only later engine notices that black has serious problems after 6.e5!
2) After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Bd6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Be5 6. Nf3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 Nf6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Re8 10. Re1 d5 11. exd5 Rxe1+ 12. Qxe1 Qxd5 13. c4 Qd6 14.h3 your 14...Bd7 is 1st choice of Houdini.
The same can be said about your reccomendation against 14.Rb1 when you choosed 14...Bg4 - move prefered by engine.
I may continue if you need more examples, but it would be offtopic and engine use to analyse variations here is not forbidden, until it`s not your game in progress.
alexlaw wrote:
Pacifique wrote:
alexlaw wrote:
e4 e5 nf3 bd6 exd4 bc4 c5!? c3 nc6 cxd4 cxd4 nxd4 nf6 e.g. nc3, nxd4 followed by qc7 be5 and d6. or be5 instead of nxd4.
anyhow, white is better for sure, but not too clear (yet).
Not too clear? With such a weak d-pawn (without any compensation for it) it`s obvious that white has better position.
better, i don't see a enough advantage to be more than a +/=.
This evaluation (like other your evaluations) matches with evaluation made by engine. But no strong human would like to defend such a positions. Btw. - your chess strenght is far from being Kramnik so you are not in position to make claims like "Kramnik would defend this position".
As a parent of a couple of kids you age I can only say shame on you!
[jst kidding]
alexlaw wrote:
lol so that java applet is much stronger than i thought. it can't see too far, but has good positional skills.
1. qe7 was the choice of the java applet
2. normal humans would play bd7 re8 hoping for some initiative on the e file and not nb4
rb1 what do you expect me to play? b6 and camp again? the java applet said bg4 and it recommended some crazy madness with bxh7. didn't look into that at all because my applet sucks.
i wonder what houdini's evaluation after c5. i actually thought c5 was rather obvious. it was nc6 or c5. i thought nc6 was stronger cuz the 'engine' said oh qe7 and you're doing fine. the java applet thought of qe7 and it failed misrably. what else can you do other than c5. personally, i don't see anything else which doesn't immediately lead to a big advantage for white.
anyway, get back on the final position. bd6 is still OK.
Quoting IMpfren (post he adressed you in 1.e4 a6 thread) - "I have no intention whatsoever to prove that a turd stinks." You may claim obviously inferior positions playable, but it won`t make them better.
Actually I don`t care which engine do you use, but obviously you are using them in your "analysis" and you trust them too much, as you`ve showed it also in previous threads (like your argument about +0.00 evaluations as evidence in Colle thread, or "computer eval says +0.33, which is not enough for a win" in 1.e4 a6 thread).
IMpfren is right when he says "You may claim obviously inferior positions playable, but it won't make them better."
ponz111 wrote:
IMpfren is right when he says "You may claim obviously inferior positions playable, but it won't make them better."
He said only "I have no intention whatsoever to prove that a turd stinks." The next is my text. :)
Keep studying computer lines on an opening that violates all chess principles. That's the ticket to getting better.
alexlaw wrote:
anyway getting back to the topic it's time to investigate 3.c3
No thanks. For you "Investigation" means claiming obviously inferior positions as "playable", because of engine evaluation.
alexlaw wrote:
it's obvious your exd4 nxd4 nc6 nc3 line doesn't amount to much/any advantage after up to move 14 or so.
Obvious for 1800 rated players with wishful thinking.
You know I have not {yet} found a downright refutation to 2. ... Bd6 but my chess sense tells me there just has to be one!
Maybe my own prejudice from decades of playing chess...