2.c3 is just equal so it's not hard to imagine 2.Na3 is worse, especially when it will probably just transpose into an alapin line anyway.
A Bust to the Sicilian Defense
Sort:
Oct 21, 2018
0
#444
The problem is Stiggling that Na3 is not a useful move in all Alapin lines. It’s mostly just in the 2.d5 lines where we see the value
Oct 21, 2018
0
#445
Ok, but a knight on c2 to influence d4 is common in various sicilian / english openings.
A knight on e3 to influence d5 and f5 is common in various spanish structures (it can get to e3 via c2 and in the same number of tempo in usual lines e.g. Nd2-f1-e3 vs Na3-c2-e3).
A knight on c4 (influencing e5) which also has the ability to go to d2 and e3 is seen in various other opening variations.
So a knight on a3 seems fine as long as the position isn't opening right away.
Oct 21, 2018
0
#447
I know, I want to see some alapin lines with 2...Nf6 where white is "busting" the sicilian.
In reality black gets a very solid position. 3.e5 is like an inferior alekhine's so I'd probably go with 3.d3 and 4.f4 and hope for a complicated middlegame with attacking chances.
I can't believe you CMs and IMs are arguing with THIS kid.
"Here is Optimissed's crushing victory in the Alapin that he posted a link to. Notice how he played the move Na3! which I've been constantly stating is the key winning move in these 2. d5 lines. Here black can not handle white's rapid development and attack after Na3 …" - staples13 (~30 hours ago)
"8.Bf4 is pointless, and your much praised 9.Na3? a lemon. What is white supposed to do after 9...cxd4? (which is the very first thing Black should consider after an eventual Na3). 10.Nb5 Qf5! shows why 8.Bf4 wasn't such a good move." - IM pfren (~28 hours ago)
"For sure white could and probably should have played Na3 earlier than he did but playing cxd4 doesn’t somehow magically stop the onslaught" - staples13 (~27 hours ago)
"Which onslaught are you dreaming of? Black has a clear advantage after 9...cxd4, dude. 10.Nb5 fails to Qf5!, 10.Nxd4 loses a pawn, while 10.cxd4 0-0 is a textbook example about how white should not treat his IQP: Two pieces (Na3, Bf4) stupidly placed." - IM pfren (~27 hours ago)
"... 10. Nb5 and white is better" - staples13 (~10 hours ago)
"... I fail to see how Qf5 solves anything. Black is going to be down an exchange with a king that can’t castle, who’s stuck in the middle of the board with the center now open and white has greater development. Somehow I don’t think black is going to survive that even if he does manage to capture white’s trapped knight" - stables13 (~6 hours ago)
"... Care to show a couple of lines? I fail to see how the heck white is going to win the exchange- actually the only move that is not outright bad is 11.Bg3 because Black has to take at f3 straightaway. …" - IM pfren (~3 hours ago)
"11. Nc7+!? Kf8 12. Bg3 White is probably going to be down a pawn in this line, but he has better development, the center will be open. Black will have the worlds stupidest rook on h8, black's king can never castle, and is exposed with an open center. Here I'd say the position is roughly equal, so I would play the immediate Bg3 where white retains the advantage. Thank you for demonstratin the point that I’ve been trying to make whenever we analyze these d5 lines Pfren which is that [Na3!] needs to be played and it needs to be played earlier than move 9. Otherwise white’s development isn’t rapid enough and black can catch up and draw. If white plays [Na3] earlier his position would’ve been crushing, but since he waited he only comes out with a small advantage" - staples13 (~3 hours ago)
"... Black is better after [9...cxd4 10 Nb5 Qf5] in the above game, and it seems to me that white has to play 11.Bg3, as after 11.Nc7+ Kf8 12.Bg3 I do see a stupidly placed piece: The knight at c7, while the rook at h8 is doing just great after a quick ...h5. Oh, and white is a pawn down, with no obvious way to create some play. '[Na3] Needs to be played earlier than move 9' -when? …" - IM pfren (~2 hours ago)
Are we going to see staples13 identify a specific pre-move-9 winning improvement for White?
Oct 21, 2018
0
#450
HorribleTomato wrote:
I can't believe you CMs and IMs are arguing with THIS kid.
It's easier to call nonsense what it is than give free coaching to earnest players.
But I hope some titled players give me some tips in my new topic:
Oct 21, 2018
0
#451
stiggling wrote:
I know, I want to see some alapin lines with 2...Nf6 where white is "busting" the sicilian.
In reality black gets a very solid position. 3.e5 is like an inferior alekhine's so I'd probably go with 3.d3 and 4.f4 and hope for a complicated middlegame with attacking chances.
Don’t worry I will oblige.
Oct 21, 2018
0
#452
And hi Horribletomato I encourage you to post some analysis. Right now the topics are 2. Nf6 and 2. e6 do you have anything to contribute to these lines?
"... Here is a recent game on the line- just 63 years old. I can imagine Efim eating his cigarette with anger, since he failed to convert his winning advantage around move 20. Please comment on it- we need some laughter! ..." - pfren (~8 hours ago)
"Pfren, Unzickers winning advantage was gone long before move 20. I’m assuming he isn’t an Alapin player becuase no c3 expert would play such foolish opening moves. Obviously he was an incredible talent so he managed to come back from the grave to draw this game In fact looking at Unzickers games he hardly ever played 2. c3 he played almost exclusively 2. Nf3 against the Sicilian, so it’s understandable why he didn’t know any Alapin theory and played so poorly in the opening" - staples13 (~7 hours ago)
Are we going to see staples13 identify a specific pre-move-20 winning improvement for White?
Interesting
pfren wrote:
staples13 έγραψε:
Here is Optimissed's crushing victory in the Alapin that he posted a link to. Notice how he played the move Na3! which I've been constantly stating is the key winning move in these 2. d5 lines. Here black can not handle white's rapid development and attack after Na3
8.Bf4 is pointless, and your much praised 9.Na3? a lemon.
What is white supposed to do after 9...cxd4? (which is the very first thing Black should consider after an eventual Na3).
10.Nb5 Qf5! shows why 8.Bf4 wasn't such a good move.>>>
I thought the large egos would have fun with this one, although I'd like to thank Kindaspongey for his compliment. It probably shows he thinks I'm a nice and honest kind of guy, which I am, as opposed to some others here who simply cannot help themselves. 
Firstly, I don't play 1.e4 but this was a Sicilian tournament. I felt far happier on the black side throughout and I'm the first to recognise that any successes with white were the result of blunders.
I was the strongest player in my group and I chose to experiment. One game was lost quickly, apparently the result of a software error which resulted in the loss of my Q, so we can ignore that. The group leader got two draws against me. I should still win the group.
In this game, I played Bf4 because someone once played it against me so I decided to check it out. I've never been convinced by Be3, forcing ... cd, because black should play that anyway at some stage or else c4 happens with advantage to white. So obviously Bf4 isn't pointless, because it commands squares. However, it might not go with Na3 and this is what I was testing out. As a Sicilian player, I'm always happy when white plays Na3, although it's an indication that black may need to be careful, because white wants to be tricky. It isn't misplaced on a3 .... it's just a different game.
To deep for me.
Actually I was kidding. Sorry but I'm getting a little fed up of Pfren's pomposity, often backed up by his bad analysis. If he doesn't have anything positive to add, he should keep quiet and stop misleading people. Of course I can play 9. Na3 ...cd 10. Nb5 ...Qf5 or Qe4 because white has 11. Bd6. Or so it seemed at the time. I think I was playing ok.
You say 2. Na3 is as good as the Alapin?
Well that is a bold statement. Perhaps you can show us some of your brilliant victories in this 2. Na3 line then?
Na3 is a pretty well known move in the alapin (maybe even part of the main line?) so... I don't know why you'd be surprised it's playable on move 2.
He didn’t claim it was playable on move 2. Of course it’s playable on move 2. He claimed it is every bit as good as 2. c3 which it is not