jengaias wrote:
First , I never said that people lose 5 trillion.I said they invest 5 trillion.
Is there any difference between these two in modern neoliberal capitalism? 
Accelerated Dragon with Queenside Castling??
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To expound on notmtwain, if he is citing from the book you bought, all it seems to be saying is that you should be sensible and play to the situation.
Jan 25, 2016
0
#64
....and that's one of the weaknesses of the SAD (haha) - I think....in that you are sadly committed to KS castling. But if you play me, and we're both under 1800 ? I will look to QS castle AND counterattack you on your kingside - whether you castle QS or KS !
Anyone over 1800 and it's kinda dumb - I'd think. But 'cuz I'm less a player than many of you doesn't mean I'm wrong by not playing by the SAD's concepts. It's all relative anywayz....only 'cuz most of you (with the exception on IM pfren) would be burnt toast w/ Black against a titled player on your best day when you castled KS.
So I had a noob question. I've done some reading and realized that it's actually white that would have the tendency to queenside castle in the Yugoslav attack. So my question is does the main line of a given opening theory consist of both white and blacks moves? Is the Yugoslav attack considered a component of the Sicilian or just a response to it? I found what I was looking for in the sense that I realized the Yugoslav attack would be a fun and interesting line to explore that involves castling long.
Jan 30, 2016
0
#66
The yugoslav attack is whites best response to the classical dragon. After 5.g6 white plays Be3 f3 Qd2 castles long and starts a kingside pawn storm. It does not work against accellerated dragon and is a very sharp line. I wouldn't recommend it unless you study all the lines because one small mistake by either side will most likely result in a loss.
impaler42 wrote:
So I had a noob question. I've done some reading and realized that it's actually white that would have the tendency to queenside castle in the Yugoslav attack. So my question is does the main line of a given opening theory consist of both white and blacks moves? Is the Yugoslav attack considered a component of the Sicilian or just a response to it? I found what I was looking for in the sense that I realized the Yugoslav attack would be a fun and interesting line to explore that involves castling long.
Jan 30, 2016
0
#67
impaler42 wrote:
So I had a noob question. I've done some reading and realized that it's actually white that would have the tendency to queenside castle in the Yugoslav attack. So my question is does the main line of a given opening theory consist of both white and blacks moves? Is the Yugoslav attack considered a component of the Sicilian or just a response to it? I found what I was looking for in the sense that I realized the Yugoslav attack would be a fun and interesting line to explore that involves castling long.
yugoslav formation is playable against several sicilian variations, but the accelerated is not 1 of them. I personally only use it against the classical dragon, as I feel there are better options against other sicilians. Bottom line is this: sicilian is vast in complications and in order to be somewhat of an 'expert' playing against the open sicilian, you need to familiarize yourself with many different concepts and ideas that pertain to each one blacks different setups. For example, I play a different formation just about every sicilian besides maybe the kan and taimanov. THis is all personal preference of course..but there are a lot of complexities and subtle different nuances in each setup, even when they seem to resemble each other.
impaler42 wrote:
So I had a noob question. I've done some reading and realized that it's actually white that would have the tendency to queenside castle in the Yugoslav attack. So my question is does the main line of a given opening theory consist of both white and blacks moves? Is the Yugoslav attack considered a component of the Sicilian or just a response to it? I found what I was looking for in the sense that I realized the Yugoslav attack would be a fun and interesting line to explore that involves castling long.
To answer your question I highlighted in red.
I will have to give you some brief background information below.
Yes, Both white and black make up what the line is going to be.
If Black plays 5...g6 in the Open Sicilian than black is playing the Sicilian Dragon.
At which point white can than make a choice as to what 6th response he wishes to use vs the Sicilian Dragon.
The Yugoslav Attack(6.Be3) is considered to be the most critical line against the Normal Sicilian Dragon.
The Yugoslav Attack is considered to be the Mainline.
Strong players play the Yugoslav Attack because it is harder for black to equalize in it.
You will more than likely see the Yugoslav Attack 25% of the time in lower level chess.
In middle level the percentage is more like 60%.
In high levels the percentage is like 95%.
The higher the ranking goes up the more demanding players playing white try to be.
They try to make it harder for black to get an equal position.
Theoritically as white you want to try and dragg out your advantage as long as possible until you either win or they end up equalizing.
Higher level players rarely play anything esle against the Sicilian Dragon.
However, it is not the "only" line white can play.
White players can play several other responses.
The other responses are not considered as challenging for black in higher level chess.
Black is said to equalize faster vs other responses in higher level.
Other line responses are:
6.Be2 - Classical Variation
6.g3 - Fianchetto Variation
6.Bc4 - I can't remeber the name of that line.
6.f4 - LevenFish Variation
I think some of the other line responses such as 6.Be2 or 6.g3 are more positional in nature.
Some of them are not as aggressive so to speak.
Some times you will face players who are not looking for aggressive lines.
They might play a more humble set up.
However, as black you should be doing fine against them.
As long as you don't screw up obviously lol.
Now to answer your below question..
So my question is does the main line of a given opening theory consist of both white and blacks moves?
The answer is YES and NO.
The part which is YES = Opening theory does consist of both white and black.
For example if you play 5...g6 as black.
Than black is playing the Sicilian Dragon.
If white plays 6.Be3 in response.
White is playing the Yugoslav Attack.
Together Black + White are playing the Sicilian Dragon, Yugoslav Attack
The part which is NO = the idea of "Main line"
"Main lines" are often founded by like the chess community who believe a line is the most challenging response.
In this example:
The Chess Community believes the Yugoslav Attack is the most challenging/testing response to the Sicilian Dragon.
They believe this because they think it is the best way for white to try and dragg out the white advantage as long as possible.
As white you have an advantage of the first move.
In higher level chess they try to milk this advantage for all it is worth!
Which is why it is the " Mainline"
Another way to call it is "Current Mainline"
The reason why is because "Mainlines" can change over time.
If a new line is created or if a new novelty is found.
Than players may change the response they use vs the Sicilian Dragon
Which means a "New Mainline" will happen.
Which is why in some chess openings you see labels such as the Old Mainline.
In the Scandinavain for example the move 3...Qd8 use to be the main way black played in that line.
However, new moves were introduced for black.
The move 3...Qa5 was introduced.
Now people call the move 3...Qd8 as the old Mainline of the Scandi.
People call the move 3...Qa5 as the new Mainline for the Scandi.
However, the move 3...Qa5 might even get replaced in the future!
The move 3...Qd6 is on the rise!
People have started playing this move as black now which might become the New Mainline lol!
Everything in chess keeps changing and evolving.
What is considered to be the most testing line today might be seen as a walk in the park tomorrow!
The Yugoslav Attack wasn't always the mainline I do not think.
I may be wrong.
However, I believe the move 6.Be2 was once the mainline for white vs the Sicilian Dragon.
The move 6.Be2 is the Classical Variation.
I believe it ended up getting replaced once the move 6.Be3 came to the scene.
PUBLIC NOTICE:
I want to make some clarification here.
When I say mainlines change don't think they change on a whim.
This change doesn't happen out of popularity!
This is not a fashion show!
It takes alot for a mainline to change!
They do change and there are plenty examples of mainlines changing.
However, it takes alot.
People really really have to believe a better continuation exist.
In some cases people have dou beliefs!
One example of people believing 2 lines are equally fine is in a line I play!!!
The Sicilian Najdorf
Now the move 6.Bg5 is the mainline of the Sicilian Najdorf!
Old Faithful!
Now believe it or not several months/years ago the move 6.Be3 came on the scene.
Introduced by English Grand Masters.
It is called the English Attack which has similar idea's like the Yugoslav Attack.
Bascially whites formation is the same and they castle queen side just like the Yugoslav Attack.
However, black in this case is playing the Najdorf.
Now the English Attack was/is very very popular!
In fact, if you look at some databases they have it as the top played move!
However, guess what?
It never became the mainline!!!!
Chess players acknowledged the English Attack was a fine option vs the Najdorf.
However, they stuck to there guns and kept 6.Bg5 as the mainline.
Obviously they remained loyal to 6.Bg5.
Even if they played 6.Be3 most still accepted 6.Bg5 as the mainline.
Which is why Today 6.Bg5 is still the mainline!
Yeah and now recently players have started picking up 6.f3 & 6.h3 as the new trendy popular moves.
By playing 6.Be3 players playing black can play the move 6...Ng4 which I have to admit I love playing HA HA.
Yeah those English Attack players have stopped playing 6.Be3 in favor for 6.f3.
Those little sissy's.
Yeah they play 6.f3 than only after play 7.Be3.
They are pansies I tell you.
Yeah others don't even play that way they play 6.h3 which is a new popular line as well.
However, the mainline 6.Bg5 is still holding strong!!!
Again the reason I am telling you this is so you are aware mainlines change. However, they do not change on a whim. It takes a lot of people to make such a change to happen.
Now to answer your second question in blue.
Is the Yugoslav attack considered a component of the Sicilian or just a response to it?
The Yugoslav Attack just a response!
It is the mainline response to the Sicilian Dragon only.
Now to answer your statement in orange.
I found what I was looking for in the sense that I realized the Yugoslav attack would be a fun and interesting line to explore that involves castling long.
From my understanding of this forum. You was pondering the idea of castling queen side for black.
The Yugoslav Attack is a line played by white only vs the Sicilian Dragon. As black you would be playing the Sicilian Dragon. In the Sicilian Dragon you would be castling King Side.
Furthermore, The Accelerated Dragon is completely different animal compared to the Sicilian Dragon.
It is considered dubious for white to enter into a Yugoslav Attack set up against the Accelerated Dragon.
They only do the Yugoslav Attack against the Sicilian Dragon.
X_player thank you for your detailed response. In hindsight, I was looking to any playable lines that incorporated castling long for black or white. I found that the Yugoslav attack leads to a sharp tactical game (especially with 9. Bc4). I'm currently exploring the Richter-Rouser and the soltis variation of the Yugoslav attack.
impaler42 wrote:
X_player thank you for your detailed response. In hindsight, I was looking to any playable lines that incorporated castling long for black or white. I found that the Yugoslav attack leads to a sharp tactical game (especially with 9. Bc4). I'm currently exploring the Richter-Rouser and the soltis variation of the Yugoslav attack.
Well if you are looking for long castles only.
Than you can check out the Caro-Kann for black and the Classical Variation as white.
It is very positional at times.
However, in the Classical Variation of the Caro-Kann both sides white + black often castle long.
However, I think the position is more positional than tactical.
Not sure if you are looking for a sharp tactical long castle or not.
Most sharp tactical lines which feature long castle happen in the Sicilian as white.
Very interesting. I am actually quite interested in sharp tactical lines, as those tend to be quite fun to play in blitz and I mainly tend to play blitz games. However, I am also interested in learning more positional openings. I will definitely look into the Caro-Kahn.
Classical Caro lines with both sides castling long are not exactly "sharp"- rather the opposite.
Things usually get extremely crazy when Opposite side castling takes place.
When white castles like queen side and black goes king side.
or
white castles king side and black goes queen side.
Usually things get sharp and tactically crazy because both sides are able to throw pawns at each other.
For example:
In the Yugoslav Attack white castles queen side.
Since the white king is on the queen side they can throw the king side pawn savagely at black.
On the flip side
Black often castles king side.
They than begin to throw the queen side pawns up savagely at white.
However, this is probably going off the forum topic anyway.
It is something worth noting though.
You know what jengaias at this point I fully support you!
You go ahead and play your terrible position's.
In fact, I encourage you to rally up other supporters!
Other's who will support your cause.
If you could rally up potiental chess opponents of mine in your cause I would really appreciate it.
Convince them the say way you have convinced other's of playing terrible position's.
I am willing to make the sacrifice of playing the better position.
It will hurt me on the inside of course. However, I am willing to take on that burden.