All things Grob

True. I meant b4 isn't as popular as the mainlines like d4 or e4. I didn't mean in comparison to a4.

Here's something that might help you. Think of 1.f4 as a reverse Dutch. So as black, you have the option of playing black as though you were playing white against it.

True.

1.b4 is not as popular as e4 or d4, but it is solid.

The main difference that I am seeing initially between the grob and the polish is that the black center pawn in the grob is protected by the queen which means there's no " exchange " type variation in the grob like there is in the polish.

All this is not new engine knowledge. Years ago Bent Larsen wrote that 1.g4 was the only bad first move.

Another significant difference is that each player typically castles kingside and the Grob exposes the castled king shelter immediately from move 1, whereas the Polish doesn't impact king safety.

This inspires me to go lose some Grob games in blitz just to get a practical feel for the opening.

The evaluation difference is pretty insignificant. And this list is a 60-ply deep Stockfish evaluation, not a Gospel.

What is very clear from this list is that 1.g4? is a very bad move.

https://www.chess.com/game/139628042090

This is the first game that I have played the Grob. To be honest it was pure adrenaline! Lol.

Any comments, criticism or critique would be appreciated.

On a side note, I went exploring on the internet for books on the Grob. I found an Unusual Openings series of books by a Mr. Bob Wall , I think was his name. They appeared to be game collections. One was on the Grob, the Latvian Gambit, and one on the Owen's defense. I have vowed that I would not be buying any more chess books till I read the ones that I already have. But...

@chessterd5 please don't repeat the 5. f3 experiment. 5. h3 would have protected the Pg4 and allowed either Nf3 or first Nc3 then Pd2 to d3 or d4 gaining time against the Queen. Without blocking in the Bg2 or allowing ..., Qh4+. But you have the right idea looking to hammer the light squares with moves like c4 and Qb3. And played the resulting position with just the right spirit of Basmaniac mayhem.

If you buy one Grob book, I still advise choosing "U Cannot Be Serious" (Basman and Welling); which will also brief you on the arcane mysteries of the St. George and the "Creepy-Crawly".

The position after 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 c6 4.cxd5 cxd5 5.Qb3 Nf6 6.Qxb7 is much closer to "roughly losing" to "roughly equal", as claimed in the video.

White should try 4.Qb3 without swapping at d5 to get a position which somehow is certainly bad, but not losing.

Thanks for the insight Mr. Hayward

I don't know what my entire thoughts were in playing f3. Maybe it had to do with the fact that in some games that I have seen on YouTube, black will push his h pawn. I did see the Queen check. And I just felt that the white king was safer on the queenside even if forfeited castleing rights. I don't know why anyone would want to castle kingside in this position. I kind of liked the Nh6 move. It seems to help solidify the kingside ( possibly for now).

Watching the evaluation bar after the game was hilarious! It was almost Shakespeare in nature " a comedy of errors "

What I thought was particularly funny was the computer assigning a 1.1 to black by simply playing 1.g4!

I also boggled a mate in two later in the game. Just proof that people make poor decisions in confusing situations.

1. f4 doesn't develop anything and opens the e1-h4 diagonal, so a potential tactical weakness. It does gain a measure of central control, but it's going about things a bit bass-ackwards, IMO

1. b4 opens a square for the development of the c1 bishop and gains some queenside space.

Had a recent team vote game as black against 1. b4 and realized how easy it is for the positive aspects of that move to emerge. We played 1...Nf6 and 2...e6 and, after some evolution, b4 looked perfectly natural in the position. My opinion, after that game, is that 1...e5 is the only right way to respond to 1. b4.

there has always been this debate about whether exchange main line of the polish is really just equal, or slightly better for black. Muri, Degterev, and teichmann are 3 players that did a lot of work in correspondence chess exploring every nook and cranny of 1.b4 e5 2.bb2 bxb4 3.bxe5 nf6 4.c4 and it is is pretty much just a draw although the engine may give a slight edge to black, but honestly, white has to memorize a bunch of weird lines to maintain that equality in some critical corridors and some natural moves are just plain bad . i like the idea of luring black into a false sense of security with the development lead but having to memorize these many nooks and crannies to prove equality agaisnt booked up opponents really was a labor of love.
but once the 4.c3 alternative was discovered and popularized by carlsen (vs be7, you put your pawns on c3,d4,e3, g3, swap bishop for knight bg2, nd2 and either ne2 or nf3 depending on the situation), it has been an easy ride . The position is both solid and dead equal, and even better, its perfect weapon agaisnt all these book roided 2000 and 2100 kids in opens who will churn out 12 moves of what the engine suggests not realizing the computer idea of early d5 and c5 actually leaves black with a permanent weakness on d5 once the early initiative sizzles out.

@chessterd5 you're spot-on correct that White's King is comfier in the centre or on the Q-side most of the time in the Grob, and allowing ..., Qh4+ didn't hurt in your game...but the threat is often stronger than the execution - I suspect that your opponent would have done better to focus elsewhere and keep the weakened e1-h4 diagonal in reserve 'for later'. Encasing the Bg2 (or was it "over-protecting the e4-square in the style of Nimzovitch"?) seems more of a problem.

Having said that, don't think formulaically in the Grob - it's an "anything goes if you feel that you can justify it tactically" type of opening - and to counteract what I said about where one usually puts the King here's a gem of a Basman game...

...demonstrating that if the centre opens up then O-O in the Grob sometimes works.

Above all, though, if you take up the Grob, play it sparingly and for giggles. Nothing more. Objectively, despite the late Mike Basman being able to make the positions stand up on their hind legs and sing, and despite my admiration for the weird beauty of his games, it's not all that good. But the merits of creating unforeseen chaos on the board (limiting the availability of "routine" moves) and forcing one's opponent to think sharply from move 1 are sometimes sufficient.

Can see how 1. b4 e5 2. Bb2 Bxb4 3. Bxe5 Nf6 4. c3 leads to positions that might be hard for black to play accurately, and not drift or go wrong. It seems difficult for black to make much out of his lead in development, and then the central majority, with black's e-pawn exchanged for white's b-pawn, is a long term plus for white.

Can see why Carlsen might go for this: gives him that kind of 'objectively equal but I know and you don't' kind of position

as for the grob, everytime i occasionally analyzed the main line, white seems to almost get a decent king's indian type of position, except, the knight on e7 comes back to haunt white, usually, via ng6-nh4.

i will say this much in its defense, if you play it like basman did and delay bg2 on move 2 (usually prefering d3 or h3 instead) it is not hard to get positions that are no worse than acceptable black defenses, agaisnt natural play by black . The number of masters that have memorized the most critical way of punishing the grob, say, even 10 moves deep is not that many. im sure plenty of masters have never faced the grob even once in an otb game, and even in rapid or blitz, see it so rarely to bother learning anything agaisnt it.
This means, that at best, it can sparingly be used as a once in a blue moon type of weapon agaisnt a very specific type of black player who will try to prematurely bulldoze. It really has no other place even in a blitz repertoire.
what is unique about the grob is that unlike other "inferior " openings, it has a certain positional layout to how its played. The moves sort of make sense, its just that it fails to more concrete considerations. most of the 2nd half of the opening bin for white doesnt even have that! the few that do are almost entirely reverse transpositional possibilities.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/139639547494?move=0

Grob game #2. It was really sloppy! I am honestly afraid to look at the evaluation. Lol

(Cue Organ music and choir)

"A mighty Fortress is our Grob,

Dubious, yet never failing.

g 4 is a such a dud,

The surprise yet prevailing."