Am I wasting my life away studying the French?

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Avatar of Flocelliere
amrendergill wrote:

 

Flocelliere wrote:

 

Going through Winawer games, particularly the wild games that result from the 7. Qg4 move, gets me familiar with positions that result from that particular opening variation, but with little else, it seems.  On the other hand, when I study, say, a Tarrasch QGD game, it leads to familiarity with pawn positions that can arise from any number of openings, and educates me not only as to that opening but also how to steer games arising from any number of different openings into pawn structures that I have some idea how to play with (or against).  My question is -- does studying the Fench improve your chess generally, or just allow you to outplay opponents in particular variations you're now familiar with?

I'm interested in accomplished, experienced players' opinions, please don't fill this thread with vapid, uneducated, and downright wrong opinions that start with "The French is a passive opening, blablabla"

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Flocelliere wrote: Going through Winawer games, particularly the wild games that result from the 7. Qg4 move, gets me familiar with positions that result from that particular opening variation, but with little else, it seems.  On the other hand, when I study, say, a Tarrasch QGD game, it leads to familiarity with pawn positions that can arise from any number of openings, and educates me not only as to that opening but also how to steer games arising from any number of different openings into pawn structures that I have some idea how to play with (or against).  My question is -- does studying the Fench improve your chess generally, or just allow you to outplay opponents in particular variations you're now familiar with?I'm interested in accomplished, experienced players' opinions, please don't fill this thread with vapid, uneducated, and downright wrong opinions that start with "The French is a passive opening, blablabla"Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Thanks for quoting me twice in a row w/out any comment, Amrendergill.  The way I see it, I can't be quoted enough!

Avatar of GearWound

Studying the French is certainly useful knowledge that can transfer to other openings and positions. I don't think you'll ever encounter a strong player who doesn't possess some knowledge of the French.

It's practically mandatory study, especially since so many other openings involve a fixed e6/d5 center.

But, like you discovered, once you get too deep into specific lines, the knowledge isn't really useful anymore, except in that line. For that reason, I recommend not going too deeply into your line studies. 10 to 15 moves at most.

Spend the rest of your opening study time exploring other lines and/or openings. 

Avatar of ericthatwho

The reason most people play chess is to win. So if you like to win play the French or the German.

Avatar of ericthatwho
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

It even made Fischer hurl!

What did he "Hurl"

Avatar of st0ckfish

The French is a passive opening and---

 

Avatar of old_acc_mm

...perfectly playable and sound and highly annoying for a lot of white players.

Avatar of st0ckfish
MangoMankey wrote:

...perfectly playable and sound and highly annoying for a lot of white players.

unless you're playing against the Tarrasch

Avatar of ericthatwho

dork

Avatar of Flocelliere
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

passive? hardly

Haven't we already covered this?!

Avatar of Flocelliere

I wish people wouldn't post when stoned.

Avatar of Flocelliere

What an incredible waste of time it was to ask a serious question on this site-for-idiots.  Aside from Inkspirit, no one else seems able even to read here.

Avatar of PremSrinathReddy_7

good opening for white

Avatar of nescitus

French Winawer teaches some valuable lessons about space, pawn mass, knight vs bishop imbalance, bad bishop, weak dark squares and withstanding an attack. If you find it monotonous, find a companion opening where these themes are useful (Nimzo-Indian? Taimanov Sicilian?). Also, find something for the white side where You play for space advantage (and not against it), for bishop pair and for attack, and you will be fine.

Avatar of ponz111

If you play the French and you are a very strong player --you can draw against any 1. e4 player.

Avatar of Flocelliere
nescitus wrote:

French Winawer teaches some valuable lessons about space, pawn mass, knight vs bishop imbalance, bad bishop, weak dark squares and withstanding an attack. If you find it monotonous, find a companion opening where these themes are useful (Nimzo-Indian? Taimanov Sicilian?). Also, find something for the white side where You play for space advantage (and not against it), for bishop pair and for attack, and you will be fine.

Thanks Nescitus, great points.  As a matter of fact when I play the Sicilian I do play the Taimanov, so maybe those characteristics have seeped into my subconscious.  I never said I found the French monotonous, just wondering if what you learn is opening-specific or whether it helps general improvement.

(People's opinions as to whether it's a good opening or not are completely irrelevant, anything that got played in the ongoing 2020 candidates' tournament is good enough for the rest of us.)

Avatar of neveraskmeforadraw

French defense was played twice in the 2020 candidates torøurnament, both times by Nepomniatchi. His drew one game, and lost the other one.

Avatar of Flocelliere
neveraskmeforadraw wrote:

French defense was played twice in the 2020 candidates torøurnament, both times by Nepomniatchi. His drew one game, and lost the other one.

So you're saying it got played TWICE during this candidates.  Even stronger argument.

Avatar of neveraskmeforadraw

..and zero wins for Black.

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
neveraskmeforadraw wrote:

..and zero wins for Black.

These days the general wisdom is that you are not supposed to try to win with black. Only if White feels ever so generous

Avatar of darkunorthodox88

luckily for OP, french has a lot of sidelines with different flavors. It seems Winawer is probably not for you and you desire a more thematic variation.
3.nf6 the classical french is positional orthodoxy and still alive and well, you cant exactly go wrong with it.
3.dxe5 is fine, especially as a draw weapon and if you price stability of structure above all else, its not a bad choice to learn
3.nc6 leads to interesting sidelines with their own unique flavor and slower pace. You may like them.