Anti Fried Liver d4 (what do I do?)

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phyz

So what should black play here? I almost always get into trouble after taking and exchanging off knights with white's queen on d4 and bishop on c4

baddogno

Against a decent player, h6 looks to be not the best approach:

3...Nf6 8,159
37.7% 29.6% 32.7%
3...Bc5 7,488
38.5% 30.5% 31%
3...Be7 832
45.6% 28.8% 25.6%
3...d6 404
42.6% 28% 29.5%
3...g6 40
40% 27.5% 32.5%
3...f5 29
69% 17.2% 13.8%
3...h6 29
55.2% 20.7% 24.1%
3...Nd4 9
33.3%   66.7%
3...Bd6 3
66.7% 33.3%  
3...a6 2
50% 50%  
3...f6 1  Mascelloni - Lo Celso (1976.??.??)
3...Qe7 1  Steinitz Wilhelm (CZE) - Timmer (1896.??.??)
3...Qf6 1  Thorhallsson Throstur (ISL) - Benedictsson Benony (ISL) (1984.??.??)
 

FEN: 
Link to Page: 

 

adumbrate

anti fried liver sucks

play 1.. c5 if you don't want to learn this stuff or 1.. e6

baddogno

And d4 is white's best continuation.  Maybe you just have to learn Fried Liver theory.

4.d4 11
72.7%   27.3%
4.O-O 11
54.5% 36.4%  
4.c3 7
28.6% 28.6% 42.9%

FEN: 
Link to Page: 

 

Robert_New_Alekhine

d4! Open up the center since you have an advantage in development.

X_PLAYER_J_X

3...h6 is a terrible move.

It is a terrible move becuase it doesn't develop a piece or contribute in any way. Except to defend 1 square.

It will be punished with 4.d4. Which opens up more lines.

After 4.d4 what you should do is resign with the back pieces. This isn't even playable.

If you want to stop the Fried Liver you should play.

3...Bc5   Guico Piano (this stops the Fried Liver but allows the Evans Gambit)

3...Be7  Hungarian Defense

Another 3rd moves allows the Fried Liver; however, you should get a decent position.

3...Nf6  Two knights Defense. (You have to know the theory for this line.)

 

The 3 lines I mentioned at move 3 are all better and playable for black.

dpnorman

3...h6 is a piece of crap.

3...Be7 and black is okay. If you want to play the best moves, look at 3...Bc5 or 3...Nf6, but be warned that they involve more theory.

Crazychessplaya

+1

csalami

h6 is not losing but it's not a good move. It doesn't develop and prevents a bad move. And you shouldn't exchange knights on d4, it allows white to bring his queen to the center for free.

Omega_Doom

The best anti liver is sicilian. Tongue Out

Tatzelwurm

play 3...Bc5 (best), and if they try 4.Ng5, then *BOOM* 4...Qxg5

I_Am_Second
phyz wrote:
 

So what should black play here? I almost always get into trouble after taking and exchanging off knights with white's queen on d4 and bishop on c4

If black is going to throw away a move and play ...h6? 

Just develop...you have numerous choices:

...Nf6

...Bc5

...Be7

piotrchess

I agree!

Qi1

Play the traxler: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5!? A full coverage can be found on the video 'dirty chess tricks to win fast 10' and has three parts. It is good for blitz games and may even work for standard games.

Qi1

By the way, 3...h6 is a pathetic move.

phyz

Got it, h6 is the problem. I knew it wasn't great but I didn't realize that it is a really poor move. Thanks all.

TitanCG

It's a poor move and I don't know what I'm doing so I will stick with moving the knights before the bishops. 

CJ_P

Don't capture nxd4. You stop fighting for the center that way. If white wants to play nxc6 let them. You can either build a strong center or get good development for your doubled pawns.

Nxd4 is a common mistake by players learning to play against the Scotch or early Nc6 Sicilians.

Just get your pieces out.

X_PLAYER_J_X
pfren wrote:

3...h6 is better known as the Blatny defence (after GM Pavel Blatny, who was fond of unorthodox openings). Not a good move, but certainly not "terrible" or "losing" as indicated here.

Blatny even found some titled followers... the man in Black is an Austrian IM, and his oppnent a FM. Contrary to what most peple believe, a poor opening move is not the end of the world if you do know what you're doing.

What a wonderful game example Pfren.

I really enjoyed seeing how the move 3...h6 was so crushing. What a wonderful twist of events during that game. I really enjoyed the part where white decided to throw his king side pawns up while his king was in the center. White than decided to castle at move 22 on the king side. Which was all forced. Black sure showed him.

What a wonderful game showing us how we can prosper with the might 3...h6 line. It will soon replace Modern Ruy Lopez theory as we know it.

Crazychessplaya

Do I detect a hint of.... sarcasm...?