Are most of the chess openings refuted in the Top level?

RJFischer960

Recently, I've noticed that in the top level, i.e the games between the Top 20 GMs, that they all play either the Ruy Lopez, the Queen's Gambit declined or sometimes the Italian Game. You don't even see the Sicilian much these days except for MVL who specialised in it. For example, No one plays the French Defense, Caro Kann Defense, the scotch game, the slav defense, the semi-slav defense etc. Have they all been refuted in the top level?

blueemu

The choice of openings at the highest level is largely dictated by fashion. GMs are as fashion conscious as teenage girls.

testaaaaa

if you are not kramnik or anand lots of guys are terrified of playing the semi slav - its one of these openings where you can prepare the craziest computerlines and sometimes so not even have to think on your own to win the game

testaaaaa

who are the best caro players today? dreev bologan topalov grischuk?

testaaaaa

and yeah i think its boring that they play so much ruy lopez in the wc 

ponz111

None of the mainline openings are refuted at the top level. They all lead to a draw with best play by both sides.

testaaaaa

yes but he is right thats too much ruy too less ponziani!

pfren
RJFischer960 έγραψε:

Recently, I've noticed that in the top level, i.e the games between the Top 20 GMs, that they all play either the Ruy Lopez, the Queen's Gambit declined or sometimes the Italian Game. You don't even see the Sicilian much these days except for MVL who specialised in it. For example, No one plays the French Defense, Caro Kann Defense, the scotch game, the slav defense, the semi-slav defense etc. Have they all been refuted in the top level?

 

I don't see any trend like that, and anyway, you may start worrying about it whenever you reach top level.

Personally, I never reached there, and so I can play whatever I please without having to worry.

testaaaaa

i think magnus and sergey played too much ruy lopez more d4 please

MickinMD

Most of the openings are playable at any level, but some fall into or out of favor, often because of new variations that become favored or disfavored.

The Bishop's Opening was out of favor for over 60 years until Kasparov played it in a WC game in the 1990's.  It was very hard to get much information on it then except for a book by Gary Lane and another by a world correspondence champion from, I think, Lithuania.

Since the middlegame that results from it is often straightforward and a strong variation of the King's Gambit, I taught it to the high school team I coached and we rode it to three consecutive county championships as well as three state championships team trophies.  No one knew it and often thought my players were trying to pull the Scholar's Mate, making them unprepared for the strengths of the opening.  Then Kasparov played it and spoiled our party!

RJFischer960
pfren wrote:
RJFischer960 έγραψε:

Recently, I've noticed that in the top level, i.e the games between the Top 20 GMs, that they all play either the Ruy Lopez, the Queen's Gambit declined or sometimes the Italian Game. You don't even see the Sicilian much these days except for MVL who specialised in it. For example, No one plays the French Defense, Caro Kann Defense, the scotch game, the slav defense, the semi-slav defense etc. Have they all been refuted in the top level?

 

I don't see any trend like that, and anyway, you may start worrying about it whenever you reach top level.

Personally, I never reached there, and so I can play whatever I please without having to worry.

Well, yea I know. I was just making an observation, that they either play the Ruy Lopez, QGD or the English. Openings like the scotch, the french defense etc arent played at all

RJFischer960
ponz111 wrote:

None of the mainline openings are refuted at the top level. They all lead to a draw with best play by both sides.

Pretty sure thats the case regardless of the opening. With best play frm both sides, the game will be likely to be a draw regardless of the opening

 

RJFischer960
MickinMD wrote:

Most of the openings are playable at any level, but some fall into or out of favor, often because of new variations that become favored or disfavored.

The Bishop's Opening was out of favor for over 60 years until Kasparov played it in a WC game in the 1990's.  It was very hard to get much information on it then except for a book by Gary Lane and another by a world correspondence champion from, I think, Lithuania.

Since the middlegame that results from it is often straightforward and a strong variation of the King's Gambit, I taught it to the high school team I coached and we rode it to three consecutive county championships as well as three state championships team trophies.  No one knew it and often thought my players were trying to pull the Scholar's Mate, making them unprepared for the strengths of the opening.  Then Kasparov played it and spoiled our party!

But I think because of the engine advancements, a few openings have been refuted in the top level. At least, thats what I think

testaaaaa

your for sure wron about the caro being refuted lol the most solid opening everrrr

pfren
RJFischer960 έγραψε:

Well, yea I know. I was just making an observation, that they either play the Ruy Lopez, QGD or the English. Openings like the scotch, the french defense etc arent played at all

Recently Naka "almost" beat Carlsen with the Scotch, and guys like Wesley So and Sacha Grischuk are playing the French quite regularly.

DeirdreSkye

      Openings are fashion that is mostly dictated by the World Champion. When Fischer was world champion KIA was in fashion.

When Kasparov was world champion Sicilian Najdorf was very popular. Today it's London and Berlin. If Caruana wins the championship the almost forgotten Petrof will suddenly become one of the most popular defenses. This is not unnatural. World champions often demonstrate  different ways of playing well known openings that  quite normally attract many good players.

    Then there is also the problem of engines. Finding a complicated line in Sicilian and prepare it with an engine is much more easy than in Berlin. Openings that require a lot of engine preparation quite understandably retreated in popularity and only the very few brave still play them.

    As Giri said :

"I can play against Anand but I can't play against Anand and his engine."

 

But all these matter only in top level. In all other levels everything reasonable(or even reasonably unreasonable) is perfectly playable.

kindaspongey

The August 2018 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 2415 May games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1...c5, 1...e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, some of the list entries are: 181 Retis, 104 declined Queen's Gambits, 97 King's Indians, 95 Caro-Kanns, 89 Berlin Lopezes, 79 Nimzo-Indians, 70 Najdorf Sicilians, 68 Slavs, 65 1...e5 Englishes, 55 Catalans, 53 Petroffes, 43 1...c5 Englishes, 42 1...e6 Englishes, 42 1...Nf6 Englishes, 42 Giuoco Pianos, and 42 Classical Gruenfelds.

testaaaaa

spongey strikes again

Colin20G

Do top players follow correspondence chess opening trends?

testaaaaa
Colin20G wrote:

Do top players follow correspondence chess opening trends?

i think they are open for every single bit that could give them an edge