Are most of the chess openings refuted in the Top level?

Sort:
Avatar of RJFischer960
testaaaaa wrote:

your for sure wron about the caro being refuted lol the most solid opening everrrr

But its rarely played at all in the top level nowadays

Avatar of RJFischer960
DeirdreSkye wrote:

      Openings are fashion that is mostly dictated by the World Champion. When Fischer was world champion KIA was in fashion.

When Kasparov was world champion Sicilian Najdorf was very popular. Today it's London and Berlin. If Caruana wins the championship the almost forgotten Petrof will suddenly become one of the most popular defenses. This is not unnatural. World champions often demonstrate  different ways of playing well known openings that  quite normally attract many good players.

    Then there is also the problem of engines. Finding a complicated line in Sicilian and prepare it with an engine is much more easy than in Berlin. Openings that require a lot of engine preparation quite understandably retreated in popularity and only the very few brave still play them.

    As Giri said :

"I can play against Anand but I can't play against Anand and his engine."

 

But all these matter only in top level. In all other levels everything reasonable(or even reasonably unreasonable) is perfectly playable.

Wow, I never thought about that. It makes a lot of sense

Avatar of RJFischer960
kindaspongey wrote:

The August 2018 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 2415 May games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1...c5, 1...e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, some of the list entries are: 181 Retis, 104 declined Queen's Gambits, 97 King's Indians, 95 Caro-Kanns, 89 Berlin Lopezes, 79 Nimzo-Indians, 70 Najdorf Sicilians, 68 Slavs, 65 1...e5 Englishes, 55 Catalans, 53 Petroffes, 43 1...c5 Englishes, 42 1...e6 Englishes, 42 1...Nf6 Englishes, 42 Giuoco Pianos, and 42 Classical Gruenfelds.

wow

Avatar of testaaaaa

someone to the rescue of my beloved caro pleeese lol

Avatar of testaaaaa
RJFischer960 wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

      Openings are fashion that is mostly dictated by the World Champion. When Fischer was world champion KIA was in fashion.

When Kasparov was world champion Sicilian Najdorf was very popular. Today it's London and Berlin. If Caruana wins the championship the almost forgotten Petrof will suddenly become one of the most popular defenses. This is not unnatural. World champions often demonstrate  different ways of playing well known openings that  quite normally attract many good players.

    Then there is also the problem of engines. Finding a complicated line in Sicilian and prepare it with an engine is much more easy than in Berlin. Openings that require a lot of engine preparation quite understandably retreated in popularity and only the very few brave still play them.

    As Giri said :

"I can play against Anand but I can't play against Anand and his engine."

 

But all these matter only in top level. In all other levels everything reasonable(or even reasonably unreasonable) is perfectly playable.

Wow, I never thought about that. It makes a lot of sense

thats basically what i said about the semi-slav.    in the film magnus  his second john ludwig hammer siad how magnus is afraid of anand preparing everything with the engine and not having to think on his own

Avatar of nighteyes1234
testaaaaa wrote:

someone to the rescue of my beloved caro pleeese lol

 

Yeah...latest info is that its out the door. Too bad. Even the top level players know....thanks to a TCEC game. Blame them lol.

 

 

Avatar of RJFischer960
nighteyes1234 wrote:
testaaaaa wrote:

someone to the rescue of my beloved caro pleeese lol

 

Yeah...latest info is that its out the door. Too bad. Even the top level players know....thanks to a TCEC game. Blame them lol.

 

 

woah. seriously?

Avatar of testaaaaa

noooooo they found a forced mate in 14 by gambiting the g pawn and sacing the rook

Avatar of nighteyes1234
RJFischer960 wrote:

woah. seriously?

 

I didnt stop playing it for no reason either! Its not that its not studied, its just all the study time is on white's side now. Too bad sad.png, it was a really good opening that the engines didnt diagnose correctly, at least at low processing power.

Avatar of testaaaaa

its obviously not so easy with the 14 moves because black can deviate but more or less you get the same mate with transpostions

Avatar of testaaaaa

i mean i feel bad for karpows opponents they were basically victims of their time

Avatar of nighteyes1234
DeirdreSkye wrote:

They are fooling you . Caro Kan is pefectly fine!

 

And yet you know nothing of the engine world....

BTW, I noticed some of your 'pals' starting to chase the Ruy Lopez 4...Nf6 too lol. Pathetic!

 

 

 

Avatar of pfren
DeirdreSkye έγραψε:

 

True, I know nothing of the engine world but if you claim Caro Kan is refuted,  you know nothing of chess.

Caro Kan is fine!

 

You don't have to shout this, we all know it.

nighteyes suffers from delusions: In another thread he somehow discovered a refutation of the Dragon with the "Stockfish attack" while in reality it was just a very common line, known since decades, way before engines were invented, and GM Gawain Jones happened to have forgotten the theory, and got crushed.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/cornette-vs-jones-first-use-of-stockfish-attack-against-dragon-defense

 

I guess he has now abandoned the Caro Kann (if one assumes that he has ever played it!) because of another, similar delusion.

Avatar of WilliamShookspear
nighteyes1234 wrote:
RJFischer960 wrote:

woah. seriously?

 

I didnt stop playing it for no reason either! Its not that its not studied, its just all the study time is on white's side now. Too bad , it was a really good opening that the engines didnt diagnose correctly, at least at low processing power.

Don't care what your rating is. Trying to use computer chess as an explanation for why humans should not play an opening is, as pfren politely put it, delusional.

Avatar of testaaaaa

yes his crazy game against wojtaszek in the najdorf is a good example

Avatar of testaaaaa

 jones cant even win against magnus a piece up does this guy really know the dragon lol

Avatar of RJFischer960

Also, I'm guessing that all gambit openings have also been refuted such as the King's Gambit, Evans Gambit, Volga Gambit etc. Although GM Adhiban Baskaran from India drew against Wesley So with the Kings Gambit in a classical game during the 2017 tata steel

Avatar of testaaaaa
RJFischer960 wrote:

Also, I'm guessing that all gambit openings have also been refuted such as the King's Gambit, Evans Gambit, Volga Gambit etc. Although GM Adhiban Baskaran from India drew against Wesley So with the Kings Gambit in a classical game during the 2017 tata steel

neither kings gambit nor evans are refuted players dont like it because black can equalize quicker if he knows "everything" one sidestep and he is toast

Avatar of nighteyes1234
pfren wrote:

 

nighteyes suffers from delusions: In another thread he somehow discovered a refutation of the Dragon with the "Stockfish attack" while in reality it was just a very common line, known since decades, way before engines were invented, and GM Gawain Jones happened to have forgotten the theory, and got crushed.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/cornette-vs-jones-first-use-of-stockfish-attack-against-dragon-defense

 

I guess he has now abandoned the Caro Kann (if one assumes that he has ever played it!) because of another, similar delusion.

 

People who actually read that thread can come to their own conclusion on who is delusional in regards to whether I claimed it was a refutation.

 

As far as the Caro-Kann, Id rather invest my time on learning from the engine about white...its that simple.

 

Avatar of testaaaaa

oh man are you really not joking i feel as naive as the op