Are there openings where one can never win a opponent with a rating higher than a certain level?

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Avatar of alphakwon
For example, if opening A cannot win any opponent with 2500+ elo, opening A fits the answer.
Thx in advance
Avatar of darkunorthodox88

i mean, they are countless moves in the early stage where you give a piece for no good reason and its over. but thats not the spirit of the question. You mean, something half legit thats truly refuted.
Sometimes, an opening becomes refuted but it is not well known, even among extremely strong players universal so this is a borderline case . for example, the natural way to play the declined nimzowitsch defense (1.nc6 2.d6 3.nf6 5.bg4, aiming for e6-d5, 0-0 etc) looks pretty darn reasonable setup but was actual proved to be busted by the engine, but a lot of players dont know the refutation. Other defenses like some ways of playing the Wade defense or the czech benoni have horrendous evaluation (like 1.5 lol) but even among very strong players, do better than the eval because practically no one has memorized the exact way to punish them, esp with the czech /closed benoni where there is a bunch of little ideas and each individually is prob busted agaisnt correct white reply but no one bothers to memorize it all (one cuz its so rare and two you already get a great position even without critical continuations, its almost not worth the effort)
They are some openings that are closer to what you are imagining as in both busted and probably players past a certain level will always get overwhelming advantage agaisnt it. The Latvian gambit is the perfect example, once you actually put the elbow grease to know the refutation, black pretty much has no winning chances, if you look at any database and only filter by games that are about 20 years old, the statistics at strong master level pretty much confirm this massacre lol

finally, they are some specific opening lines where a draw by repetition or even rarer by perpetual is the end of the process, and trying to avoid it likely gets you a worse or even lost position. Not what you have in mind, but you have to accept that if a weaker player knows how to get that draw in that specific line , there is not much you can do.

Avatar of pcalugaru
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

Sometimes, an opening becomes refuted but it is not well known, even among extremely strong players universal so this is a borderline case . for example, the natural way to play the declined nimzowitsch defense (1.nc6 2.d6 3.nf6 5.bg4, aiming for e6-d5, 0-0 etc) looks pretty darn reasonable setup but was actual proved to be busted by the engine, but a lot of players dont know the refutation. Other defenses like some ways of playing the Wade defense or the czech benoni have horrendous evaluation (like 1.5 lol) but even among very strong players, do better than the eval because practically no one has memorized the exact way to punish them, esp with the czech /closed benoni where there is a bunch of little ideas and each individually is prob busted agaisnt correct white reply but no one bothers to memorize it all (one cuz its so rare and two you already get a great position even without critical continuations, its almost not worth the effort)
They are some openings that are closer to what you are imagining as in both busted and probably players past a certain level will always get overwhelming advantage agaisnt it. The Latvian gambit is the perfect example, once you actually put the elbow grease to know the refutation, black pretty much has no winning chances, if you look at any database and only filter by games that are about 20 years old, the statistics at strong master level pretty much confirm this massacre lol

finally, they are some specific opening lines where a draw by repetition or even rarer by perpetual is the end of the process, and trying to avoid it likely gets you a worse or even lost position. Not what you have in mind, but you have to accept that if a weaker player knows how to get that draw in that specific line , there is not much you can do.

Interesting comments...

Looks like you got a conundrum of conflicting perspectives

******from the Scainavian post...

and as for this cute idea that "oh my opponent wont play like an engine" think again.

1.if you are a strong aspiring player, your games and your playstyle will be available in the databases and people will study you.

2.even if you are a class player, imagine you are in tournament, say a round 4 of 5 and in the lead and your opponent has a whole afternoon knowing they will play against you. and a couple thousand dollars of price money are on the line. Anyone with half a brain will look up what you play and if you play stuff like this,you will be victim to 20 minutes of prep that would leave you in a dead lost position at worst or a moribund position at best. People WILL throw you the critical engine line, esp when lines have few viable sidelines like this stuff.

in an age of 3500 rated engines and cloud computing live book where you can import other people's analysis, you must always test an opening to the critical lines available agaisnt it since all it takes is a tiny bit of research for your opponent to proverbial throw the book at you. At that point you banking on your opponents ignorance to just get a playable position.