Play c5 instead of e5 and try to get some play on the Queenside.
Attacking Fianchettoed Bishop in King's Indian Defense
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Dec 20, 2016
0
#3
You can play the very similar Old Indian. It's exactly the same as the Kings Indian without the fianchetto that you're not comfortable with.
I think you'll find it doesn't generate the same energy and attacking chances. It's kind of flat.
I think you'll find it doesn't generate the same energy and attacking chances. It's kind of flat.
Dec 20, 2016
0
#5
Not sure what the OP is saying...
You feel that the Bishop on g7 is misplaced if it isn't pointed at the enemy King?
Dec 20, 2016
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#6
Well i thought the main point of the kid was a kingside attack but it is harder for me personally to do with the bishop fianchettoed in that way. I wasn't sure how the bishop pointing at the queenside helps attack the kingside. In the dragon it makes more sense to me since the bishop is pointed at the king if opposite side castling occurs. I am not saying the kingside fianchetto is bad in the kid, it's just that I don't know why it is done.
Dec 20, 2016
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#7
Yes, a King's side attack is one of the common themes in the KID. But it's usually accomplished by pushing your King's side Pawns down the board. The Bishop on g7 helps to shield the Black King after his Pawns roll forward. It can also help to slow down White's Queen's side counter-play... for example, by retreating to f8 (guarding the d6 Pawn) after Black has played f7-f5-f4 and R(f8)-f6-g6 or R(f8)-f7-g7 (clearing f8 for a defending Bishop).
Just out of curiosity... where would you want it instead of g7? You CAN'T put it on c5, since White would tempo it to death during his own Queen's side attack.
Dec 20, 2016
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#8
blueemu wrote:
Yes, a King's side attack is one of the common themes in the KID. But it's usually accomplished by pushing your King's side Pawns down the board. The Bishop on g7 helps to shield the Black King after his Pawns roll forward. It can also help to slow down White's Queen's side counter-play... for example, by retreating to f8 (guarding the d6 Pawn) after Black has played f7-f5-f4 and R(f8)-f6-g6 or R(f8)-f7-g7 (clearing f8 for a defending Bishop).
Just out of curiosity... where would you want it instead of g7? You CAN'T put it on c5, since White would tempo it to death during his own Queen's side attack.
Thanks, so I guess the main purpose of the bishop is defense of the king and queenside rather than attack. Honestly I don't know where else I would put it but I just didn't understand what it was doing on g7. I need to start playing the kid more to get a feel for some of these ideas.
Dec 20, 2016
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#9
Blueemu hit the nail on the head. I've won plenty of KID games where that bishop Just plays defense on g7 or f8. Fischer and Kasparov both played the KID. If you want to learn the ideas, going over their games would be a good place to start.
Dec 20, 2016
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#10
Just a brief philosophical post:
Piece activity... most players seem to look at it as a property of individual pieces. A piece can only contribute to your piece activity if it is actively placed... and an inactive piece represents a problem that needs to be fixed.
That's the common view.
And the lesson we learn from that is that Gyula Breyer didn't have a very good Public Relations consultant.
Back in the early 1900s (before the First World War), Breyer was already talking about piece activity as a collective property of your entire side.
This view opens up a new opportunity: a piece can contribute to your collective piece activity by taking over defensive roles and freeing up other pieces and Pawns to become more active.
Case in point: the closed variations of the KID. Black's g7-Bishop takes over the defensive role of the Pawn screen that usually shields your King. This allows the Pawns to become active and storm down the board to pry open lines leading to White's King.
Dec 20, 2016
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#11
MartyMcfly85- Yes they are my two favorite players and my primary reason for wanting to learn the kid, I just had some trouble with it when I attempted to play it the first few times
Blueemu- Thanks for those thoughts. Your first explanation of piece activity was my understanding of it, but I suppose my knowledge of positional play is fairly poor.
LadyEncore wrote:
I think I misunderstood - I thought you meant when White has also fianchettoed the bishop on the kingside, in which case I play c5.
Play c5 instead of e5 and try to get some play on the Queenside.
Dec 20, 2016
0
#13
LadyEncore wrote:
LadyEncore wrote:
Play c5 instead of e5 and try to get some play on the Queenside.
I think I misunderstood - I thought you meant when White has also fianchettoed the bishop on the kingside, in which case I play c5.
I see, thank you for clarifying it for me.
Dec 21, 2016
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#14
LadyEncore wrote:
LadyEncore wrote:
Play c5 instead of e5 and try to get some play on the Queenside.
I think I misunderstood - I thought you meant when White has also fianchettoed the bishop on the kingside, in which case I play c5.
Against lines where White fianchettos at g2, I prefer the Panno, Nc6.
Here's a game played on this website. My opponent was only slightly higher-rated than I, but his Tactics Trainer rating was over 2350.
That's a nice game. I sometimes reach positions with the knight on a5 but only after an earlier c5. In fact, I normally play c5 as early as I can (I'd have played it on move 3 in your game - I'm not saying it's the best move but I have my reasons).
Dec 21, 2016
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#16
With bishop on e7 Mar de Plata variation would not be possible.
Bc5 not go c5 because d4 attacks c5.
Bg7 is most logical square to put bishop in, controls long diagonal, pressures d4 after a timely Nd7 and can revive on h6.
Dec 21, 2016
0
#18
blueemu escribió:
LadyEncore wrote:
LadyEncore wrote:
Play c5 instead of e5 and try to get some play on the Queenside.
I think I misunderstood - I thought you meant when White has also fianchettoed the bishop on the kingside, in which case I play c5.
Against lines where White fianchettos at g2, I prefer the Panno, Nc6.
Here's a game played on this website. My opponent was only slightly higher-rated than I, but his Tactics Trainer rating was over 2350.
Wow, how can you play the Panno when Karpov practically refuted it?
How do attacks from fianchettoed castle positions usually go when both sides castle on the kingside? I tried the king's indian defense a long time ago but not being used to attacking from that type of structure was what made me decide to go off of the opening. What is the point of the fianchettoed bishop when it is pointing in the wrong direction and the resultant kingside pawn structure doesn't allow for the same fluidity of kingside piece movement as it would if the g pawn hadn't moved?