Avoid 2 knights defense?

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Avatar of golfmaniac9

I was looking at opening the other day and came across something called the fried liver attack.  After exploring it on a board i found that it is impossible for black to be in a winning position if white plays correctly.  Here it is.

All comments are appreciated
Avatar of shoop2

Read the wikipedia article on the Two Knight's Defense.  A. black has better options than nxd5 and B. white is by no means winning in the above position.

Avatar of klamarson

White has a better position.The reason is if black plays Nc7 or Nb4,white immediately castles.The exposed king will be attacked and notice the  efile will now be available for the white rook .Then i dont think black has many good moves after.

Avatar of golfmaniac9
Shoop: in response to A, i never thought about wikipedia, so thankyou for reccomending it. Nxd5 is a troubling move. In response to B, i am not sure why you think black is in an equal situation to white because white can now harrass the king until checkmate.
Avatar of Conquistador

Yawn.  Just play 4...Bc5.

Avatar of shoop2

White has an attack.  Black has an extra piece.  Seems, what's the phrase all the cool kids are using, "dynamically balanced"?

(Conquistador:  kudos.  You are a braver man than I.  :-D )

Avatar of golfmaniac9
Conquistador. Bc5 is majorly aggressive, but now if white plays 5. bf7+ the black king must move and then white can castle. Shoop. White can win that piece back eventually because of the attack and blacks bishops can't develop well
Avatar of jaberer

Fried liver is a very beginner opening....

It will work very affectively in an beginner tournament, but very badly in a GM Tourny... after Nc3 Ncb4 wins,

If white Castles, then...

When against a computer, White might lose, but this is drawable if playing the right moves...
Avatar of shoop2

Golf, please read some opening analysis, and calculate more if you're trying to refute it.  This opening has already been analyzed quite thoroughly, and I'd be surprised if either of us could add much to what's currently known about it.

Also, after 4. ...bc5 5. bxf7+ kf8 6. O-O h6 white will lose his bishop.

Avatar of graywyvern

that's what i miss about not being a beginner anymore. i had so much fun with junk like this in the old days.

but 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 Ng5 d5 5 ed Nd4! very often ends with checkmate by Black OTB (Fritz Variation); 5...Na5 gives a level game; the even rarer 5...b4 (Ulvestad) is playable under short time controls.

after awhile, though, no one would open 1 e4 against me no matter what their rating was.