best opening against e4 for a King's Indian player

Sort:
ThrillerFan
ApolL26 wrote:

As you're such an expert on this combination of openings, i'm sure most Kings indian players play the french against 1. e4, so lets look at some of the best Kings Indian experts. Kasparov, Fischer and Tal are all Kings Indian experts, so i'm sure all of them played the french with black every game against 1. e4, right? Oh yeah, they all mostly played the sicilian, and basically never the,oh so similar to the Kings Indian, French.

 

See post 20 smart alec!

Giraffe_Chess

Sounds like there's quite the French Defense battle going on here. I'll start by saying that I am admittedly a staunch Caro-Kann player, and would vouch for that opening no matter what. However, as a KID player, if you feel that is not your cup of tea and you want positions that are more similar to the ones you get in the KID, I would recommend 1.e5. I've played every opening under the sun as Black (both against e4 and d4), and when I was playing the KID, I found certain e5 positions to be very similar. There are a lot of lines in 1.e5 that get very sharp, and some strong lines that involve fianchettoing the dark-squared bishop. My personal favorite e5 line is: e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bc4 Nf6 d3 h6, getting ready to follow up with the powerful g5. Black can easily get a KID-like attack in these lines and there are some great model games for this line. In the Ruy Lopez, Black can go for: e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 a6 Ba4 d6 0-0 Nf6 d3 g6, with a potentially potent kingside attack to come. I have one OTB game here against a FIDE Master which I held to a draw with ease (though you can definitely play for more!).

That all being said, if you're interested in learning about the Caro-Kann for Black, I have a few blog posts on it, and it is also featured in my most recent YouTube video, in which I play games with commentary and analysis. Please feel free to check out my channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpRYz_ElTJC-FUq4unehOfg The Caro-Kann allows Black the choice between solidity and aggression, and this flexibility and level of control is something I personally find very intriguing.

DrSpudnik

I used to joke that the Ruy Lopez starts out as a king-pawn opening and ends up a double fianchetto defense. But it's kind of true.

GhostofSasha

Yeah exactly Giraffe_Chess that's my point. But indeed I should agree to all of the guys here about the French Defence part.

ThrillerFan
MagnanimousIndian wrote:

In my opinion you shouldn't make the French a repertoire for yourself . You get serious trouble trying to develop your light square bishop , and moreover I feel the entire opening itself is quite passive . I don't intend to oppose the ones who have suggested the french . Just my opinion.

 

I see that you have been playing the KID for quite a couple of time , and you must be rather willing to positions where similar ideas can be employed . I don't have much of an idea about then since I myself haven't played it much . However in general , I would strongly suggest you either the caro kann or the sicilian against e4 . My personal preference would be carokann. It gives you maximum chances and gives you very comfortable positions , except for the advance variation (though manageable).

 

If your main beef is the light squared Bishop in the French, why are you not trying to get him to quit playing the KID?  In the Classical variation, that DSB is even worse than the LSB is in the Advance French!

GhostofSasha

I guess French in general is an extremely difficult opening to understand and it's not everyone's cup of tea. I don't know anybody ever noticed this or not but it's the opening in which Kasparov lost three games to Radjabov, Ivanchuk and Anand respectively. Also in recent days agressive players like Nepomniachtchi and Topalov plays it. So It's probably not passive I mean in that sense KID is the most passive of all. The problem with Sicilian is somewhat strange I think in some Anti Sicilian lines white busts open the position. And tbh I don't like Caro Kann not only because of Advance but because of the very main line where white captures on e4 and get a very open position exactly opposite of what a Caro player wants.

MorphysMayhem

Pirc/modern for sure.

ApolL26
ThrillerFan skrev:
ApolL26 wrote:

As you're such an expert on this combination of openings, i'm sure most Kings indian players play the french against 1. e4, so lets look at some of the best Kings Indian experts. Kasparov, Fischer and Tal are all Kings Indian experts, so i'm sure all of them played the french with black every game against 1. e4, right? Oh yeah, they all mostly played the sicilian, and basically never the,oh so similar to the Kings Indian, French.

 

See post 20 smart alec!

Yeah and those are famous Kings Indian experts, and to the other ones like Ding Liren, and Grischuk, they play basically everything.

Let's just stop talking about this. I'm in no way disresecting the French, it's a great opening but i just don't think it fits a typical Kings Indian player. Of course there are some exceptions though.

ThrillerFan
ApolL26 wrote:
ThrillerFan skrev:
ApolL26 wrote:

As you're such an expert on this combination of openings, i'm sure most Kings indian players play the french against 1. e4, so lets look at some of the best Kings Indian experts. Kasparov, Fischer and Tal are all Kings Indian experts, so i'm sure all of them played the french with black every game against 1. e4, right? Oh yeah, they all mostly played the sicilian, and basically never the,oh so similar to the Kings Indian, French.

 

See post 20 smart alec!

Yeah and those are famous Kings Indian experts, and to the other ones like Ding Liren, and Grischuk, they play basically everything.

Let's just stop talking about this. I'm in no way disresecting the French, it's a great opening but i just don't think it fits a typical Kings Indian player. Of course there are some exceptions though.

 

Difference is, with the 2 I mentioned in post 20, the Kings Indian was their primary line of defense to 1.d4.  Not just a game here or there where they played "everything".  Especially Uhlmann.  He was not much of a deviator.  Game here, game there, sure, but otherwise, he was pretty much French and Kings Indian as Black, English and 1.d4 as White.

ApolL26
ThrillerFan skrev:
ApolL26 wrote:
ThrillerFan skrev:
ApolL26 wrote:

As you're such an expert on this combination of openings, i'm sure most Kings indian players play the french against 1. e4, so lets look at some of the best Kings Indian experts. Kasparov, Fischer and Tal are all Kings Indian experts, so i'm sure all of them played the french with black every game against 1. e4, right? Oh yeah, they all mostly played the sicilian, and basically never the,oh so similar to the Kings Indian, French.

 

See post 20 smart alec!

Yeah and those are famous Kings Indian experts, and to the other ones like Ding Liren, and Grischuk, they play basically everything.

Let's just stop talking about this. I'm in no way disresecting the French, it's a great opening but i just don't think it fits a typical Kings Indian player. Of course there are some exceptions though.

 

Difference is, with the 2 I mentioned in post 20, the Kings Indian was their primary line of defense to 1.d4.  Not just a game here or there where they played "everything".  Especially Uhlmann.  He was not much of a deviator.  Game here, game there, sure, but otherwise, he was pretty much French and Kings Indian as Black, English and 1.d4 as White.

As i said of course there are some exceptions

GhostofSasha

Modern is not in the spirit of KID Morphys-Revenge. I think it's a bit less dynamic.

GhostofSasha

A combination of French Pirc and E5 is apparently my best bet.

RevivedIce
ApolL26 wrote:
ThrillerFan skrev:
ApolL26 wrote:

I completely disagree. As a Kings indian player, i wouldn't even consider playing the french. Just because the positions are locked, it isn't even a similar opening. In the Kings Indian you try to gain an initiative and attack the king. That's not what you do in the french. I would recommend either a sicilian, or 1. e5

 

You have played 2 games as White on here and none as Black.  Do you even understand the French?  to say that Black doesn't play for an initiative is ludicrious

 

 

 

The first one Black has the attack on d4, White needs to make progress while defending.

The second one sees Black with more active pieces and a lead in development for the IQP

The third sees Black often with a raging Kingside attack while having to watch out for his own King.

 

The French is not a passive defense by any stretch of the imagination!

First of, i just created this account, so of course i don't have a lot of games on here. Second, in those lines you gave white isn't playing very well. Third, yes i understand the french, i'm over 2100 fide. Fourth, when did i say the french is passive? Fifth, while the french doesn't have to be boring, it's a lot more positional than the Kings Indian.

Edit: The second line is ok, but black doesn't have an advantage, and no initiative yet at least.

 Found it strange as a new player that you suggested white is not playing well, while at the same time exaplaining that black did not reach an advantageous position, surely that would mean white is playing well as the whole point for white out of the opening is to not allow black to gain any advantage, I would have thought if white is not playing well black would indeed be gaining some initiative... However I am not getting into the debate as a new player, I just found what you said to be a bit of an oxymoron. 

As far as the author of this threat is concerned, I have stumbled across your question as I too myself play kings indian against pretty much all of whites openings, obviously except 1.e4 and was looking for an opening I like as much as the kings indian to play against 1.e4, I am leaning towards sicillian if that helps. 

As white I play 1.e4 and 1.d4 as I am yet to settle on my white opening preferences too. I get into 4 knights a lot which I really don't like, I find it quite boring. I believe us kings indian players must like the whole attacking aspect of how it plays so I really think sicillian has the same potential in that regard. 

SamuelAjedrez95

Sicilian.

Sicilian and King's Indian are both considered sharp, aggressive, uncompromising defences. They have the same spirit. I would recommend the Najdorf or Dragon. Dragon has the fianchetto bishop like the King's Indian, although the nature of the position is different.

I personally play Najdorf against e4 and King's Indian against d4.

French is similar to the King's Indian in the sense that it is typically a more closed position. It is also quite aggressive.

Pirc may be another good choice as it's essentially playing a King's Indian set up against e4. It will work differently though as white hasn't played c4 and can use the tempo on another move.

brianchesscake

Fischer almost always played the King's Indian Defense against d4 and the Najdorf Sicilian against e4.

SamuelAjedrez95
brianchesscake wrote:

Fischer almost always played the King's Indian Defense against d4 and the Najdorf Sicilian against e4.

Same with Kasparov and Polgar. It's the tactical player's repertoire.