@cadaha: I'm sure that Morphy game must be professionally annotated in a collection of games (book etc.) somewhere...
Best way to learn openings. . suggestions please
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RepettoLettuce wrote:
Dont worry about it. Take chess as a hobby. In my case when learning openings I usually just open MCO, learn the lines (it is amazing how easily I can memorize a 17 moves deep line by just looking at it) and then pass them trought Stockfish to see what the hell is going on (Specially on Sicilian Najdorf Lines it is pretty useful)
Good luck with your chess.
Out of all the suggestions in this thread "memorize everything from MCO 17 moves deep and analyze it with Stockfish" is probably the worst.
Fischer was known to say stoopid things. Just google a list of his quotes. He is no chess coach, although that method may have worked for his brain. He is one of the last people I would want to play, and one of the last good players from whom I would want to take lessons. If that draconian method works for you though, keep doing it.
Stockfish 7 didn't exist then.
@Repetto: Look at the comments he made about women, for example. I'm not going to repost them, but they are ignorant and stoopid comments. Telling me I have a low IQ isn't going to change that fact. Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'm happy you find Fishcer's comments to be so profound that only you can comprehend them. What a mind you have. One may be gifted at something, or even a genius (and he probably was), and be horrible at teaching it. Surely you can grasp that concept. I'm also thrilled that you have been playing the Najdorf since yout cut the cord from mommy. You sound intellectually insecure.
...not to mention the retarded 9/11 comments...
"memorizing openings 17 moves deep"
"Run them through stockfish"
YIKES....Quite possibly the worst opening advice i have heard in quite awhile.
RepettoLettuce wrote:
Diakonia wrote:
"memorizing openings 17 moves deep"
"Run them through stockfish"
YIKES....Quite possibly the worst opening advice i have heard in quite awhile.
I think no one understands me. Or they simply dont understand how chess works. Chess is science. Saying that memorizing lines is bad is like saying to a chemist learning the periodic table is retard. If what you are saying is correct then Wei Yi is probably a retard looking at all the lines in the Open Spanish (he had a mad game in the Open Spanish also)or Sicilian French with Stockfish (I can't see how else he played Rxf7 against Bruzon).
Once you get a feeling for the positions. You start learning theory, you learn sharp complex variations. Then you analyze the lines. You can analyze them if you want to with a chessboard, but if the lines are so tactically insane (just like the ones in the Najdorf) you may want to analyze them with Stockfish. Here is a brief example:
Take this as a free lesson. The method I use has worked perfectly for me. MCO is a great book, so many footnotes and things to learn there, only if you use the right approach. I think my approach is quite correct. U see a line, memorize it, analyze it and dont play it until you fully understand the moves. I would not play the line mentioned above If I didnt know the ideas behind h5 or Rg1.
And yes, the g5 pawn is hanging before Nc5, but I will leave that as a homework.
I understand what youre saying, but i think what youre mising is this. I can memorize a book on brain surgery, but that doesnt mean i can perform brain surgery. It takes more than just memorizing a bunch of moves. It takes understanding the "why" of each move, it takes understanding the pawn structure involved. None of these things are explained in MCO, or a chess engine.
We can't turn this into a political discussion -- that's for off topic. Just google quotes by Fischer....that's all I can stay... The MCO advice is taken to such an extreme it's ridiculous...not that memorization of lines is not necessary at very high levels...Just doing that,though, and relying on an engine...is not the most efficient way to learn by any means. Same goes for analyzing your games.Playing through MCO multipletimes is a waste of time. Bottom line: the man was a chess genius who had mental problems and made dumb comments...and would likely not teach as well as most titled chess instructors on this site. He was brilliant yet delusional, and that is not his fault.
I certainly would not want to defend Fischer comments generally, but I've always suspected that it was intended as something of a joke when Fischer suggested that someone play through all the lines of MCO twice. At any rate, the chess world has changed considerably in the decades since then. It has now been close to a decade since the last MCO was written. Apart from the very limited amount of explanation, there might not be much about lines explored recently.
Jun 7, 2016
0
#73
Hey, what is a good opening for black to learn as an alternative to French, so with less difficult pawn structures and patterns?
ylblai2 wrote:
In a 2006 GM John Nunn book, in connection with opening study, it is stated that, if a "book contains illustrative games, it is worth playing these over first".
"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)
At 2016, the main reason to buy an openings book is that the author somehow has to earn his living.
pfren wrote:
At 2016, the main reason to buy an openings book is that the author somehow has to earn his living.
I agree with for once.
ChessOfPlayer wrote:
pfren wrote:
At 2016, the main reason to buy an openings book is that the author somehow has to earn his living.
I agree with for once.
No suprise. It's one of the few things I agree with GM and FIDE Senior Trainer Grivas (who has authored some opening books up to ten years ago): Today the big majority of openings' books (even the simplified ones "for amateurs") are useless, and in some cases not harmless.
rubenmeijerink wrote:
Hey, what is a good opening for black to learn as an alternative to French, so with less difficult pawn structures and patterns?
At your level opeings are the last thing you need to be concentrating on. Stick with opening principles:
Control the center.
Develop minor pieces toward the center
Castle
Connect your rooks
"... In general, working by yourself with a database is probably more helpful than a poor opening book, but a good opening book can open up new vistas that you would probably not discover by yourself. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)
"Each player should choose an opening that attracts him. Some players are looking for a gambit as White, others for Black gambits. Many players that are starting out (or have bad memories) want to avoid mainstream systems, others want dynamic openings, and others want calm positional pathways. It’s all about personal taste and personal need.
For example, if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
"Chess books and databases can be of valuable help to the progress of an ambitious chess-player. However, besides these indispensable tools, the role of the trainer is both significant and essential. This consideration immediately spawns a question: who is the indicated trainer?
An answer to this question does not come easily. Every trainer is useful in specific stages in the progress of a chess-player. We could try to categorize chess trainers as follows:
First-Level Trainer: The trainer who will teach the student the basics and bring him into contact with the world of chess. One of his main aims is to infuse the student with love and respect for chess.
Second-Level Trainer: The trainer who will teach the student his first openings, simple tactical motifs and, generally, will introduce the student to the aspects of working and learning.
Third-Level Trainer: The trainer who will teach the student, first and foremost, the theory of the middlegame and the endgame. Moreover, he will work closely with the student towards the creation of the student's personalized openings repertoire, ..." - GM Efstratios Grivas (2006)
"... In general, working by yourself with a database is probably more helpful than a poor opening book, but a good opening book can open up new vistas that you would probably not discover by yourself. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)
I think Lettuce Head needs to open his head to new vistas and think outside the box. If Fischer told him to study underwater he probably would. Then he would get soggy.
In a 2006 GM John Nunn book, in connection with opening study, it is stated that, if a "book contains illustrative games, it is worth playing these over first".
"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)