bishops opening???

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SAGM001

Chameleon ? lol

street_figther2turbo
pfren wrote:
mecuelgalapieza έγραψε:

I like the Urusov 1 e4 e5 2Bc4 Nf6 3 d4!? However, if black goes2 Nc6, you have to resign to play a quiet game with Nf3, Nc3 etc.

The Urusov is practically busted, at least as a try for an advantage and/or lively play, after 3...ed4 4.Nf3 Bb4+! 5.c3 dxc3 6.bxc3 d5! when Black is at least equal.

What opening is not busted or black is not at least equal with the correct moves? Just asking as I am a beginner.-

Cherub_Enjel

One of the ideas behind the Bishop's opening is to not hang material for free. 

It's something you should work on first before trying to look at all these various opening theory lines. 

MickinMD
Cali_boy613 wrote:
What are the general themes and ideas behind the bishops opening (1. E4 E5, 2. Bc4)?
Also, what's a good source of info on it ?

The most complete and up-to-date book on the Bishop's Opening I know is Gary Lane's, The Bishop's Opening Explained (c.2004).

There's also an excellent multi-page online explanation, including the Urusov Gambit, at https://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~goeller/urusov/bishops/index.html

Yes, the Bishop's Opening opening often transposes into the Vienna and King's Gambit Declined, but there are lines like 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 Nf6 3 d4, the Urusov Gambit, where at least one Grandmaster Theme Tournament (Marshall, Torre, Santasiere) on the Urusov was held in 1924.

For lower-rated players (1000-1400 regular OTB USCF), the Bishop's Opening can be a powerful weapon because the opening moves and the game plan are easily understood: get in an early f4, castle Q-side if possible, play the f4-Pawn to f5 if possible to block Black's pieces from the K-side and then storm your f, g, h Pawns up the Kingside.

It had been out of favor for over 60 years when I introduced it to the high school team I coached - before Kasparov played it and people started paying attention to it again.  We rode it to a county championship in a highly contested county (3 teams in the state top 10) and took the 3rd Place Team Trophy in the State Scholastic Tournament.

We found that weak players never saw 2 Bc4 before, so they thought it was going to be a cheap attempt at a Scholar's Mate and tended to play defensively with f7 in mind while our players developed and prepared their attacks.

We also found that if the good players got in 2...Bc5 or 3...Bc5, it made a brute-force K-side attack difficult.  So against better players we tended to transpose into the Vienna Game, which usually went 1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 Nf6 3 d3 Bc5 4 Nc3 and then 5 f4.

Today, I prefer just to play the Vienna Game in normal order, where you still get lots of possibilities of playing f4 before Nf3 and a lot of pressure on the Black K-side and f7.  Here's a miniature where, even though Black blunders on move 7, you can see how potentially explosive White's attack is and the Bishop's Opening often transposes into it. Even if Black had played 7...Bxf3 8 Qxf3 Nd4 9 Qf2 and 10 f5, White has a material imbalance in his favor on the K-side. That - blunder or no blunder - is the kind of position my champion teenagers often got and analyzed to death in chess club meetings between roughly monthly team Swiss tournaments:

 

MickinMD
street_figther2turbo wrote:
pfren wrote:
mecuelgalapieza έγραψε:

I like the Urusov 1 e4 e5 2Bc4 Nf6 3 d4!? However, if black goes2 Nc6, you have to resign to play a quiet game with Nf3, Nc3 etc.

The Urusov is practically busted, at least as a try for an advantage and/or lively play, after 3...ed4 4.Nf3 Bb4+! 5.c3 dxc3 6.bxc3 d5! when Black is at least equal.

What opening is not busted or black is not at least equal with the correct moves? Just asking as I am a beginner.-

The Urusov gambit, according to chess.com's Opening Explorer, Master Games, says White wins 44% of the time, draws 23% and loses 33%.  It had been analyzed to death by 1924 when a Urusov Theme Tournament in New York (https://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~goeller/urusov/dimock/index.html) was played among strong GM's and IM's.  If you look at the tourney crosstable below, you'll see enough "0's" next to the first, White scores of most of the participants that I wouldn't be afraid to play it against anyone on this site.

I have been studying it, but I'm not sold on it yet as fitting my style - it is exciting, though!

null

street_figther2turbo
MickinMD wrote:
street_figther2turbo wrote:
pfren wrote:
mecuelgalapieza έγραψε:

I like the Urusov 1 e4 e5 2Bc4 Nf6 3 d4!? However, if black goes2 Nc6, you have to resign to play a quiet game with Nf3, Nc3 etc.

The Urusov is practically busted, at least as a try for an advantage and/or lively play, after 3...ed4 4.Nf3 Bb4+! 5.c3 dxc3 6.bxc3 d5! when Black is at least equal.

What opening is not busted or black is not at least equal with the correct moves? Just asking as I am a beginner.-

The Urusov gambit, according to chess.com's Opening Explorer, Master Games, says White wins 44% of the time, draws 23% and loses 33%.  It had been analyzed to death by 1924 when a Urusov Theme Tournament in New York (https://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~goeller/urusov/dimock/index.html) was played among strong GM's and IM's.  If you look at the tourney crosstable below, you'll see enough "0's" next to the first, White scores of most of the participants that I wouldn't be afraid to play it against anyone on this site.

I have been studying it, but I'm not sold on it yet as fitting my style - it is exciting, though!

 

Thanks for the info, it seems the urusov gambit is fun and good to play!